How good could groves have been?

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by smithshaun, Dec 1, 2019.

  1. smithshaun

    smithshaun Active Member Full Member

    Oct 20, 2013
    Can't helping thinking that had groves been with Shane mcguigan for longer he could have become an atg within British boxing . Clearly booth let him down just before the first froch fight. Biggest fight of his career with a complete rookie in his corner and again for the rematch and badou jack. Do you think the froch and jack fights would have been different with Shane in the corner? Imo Groves had all the attributes to be a world beater
  2. Hattonmad

    Hattonmad Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    The fall out with Booth obviously came at the worst possible time of his career. It speaks volumes about his ability that he came back from all that and became no.1 in the division.

    A great career that could've been greater, yes. How far could he have gone? Who knows. He never had iron whiskers but he was a tough man.

    I personally think he could've beaten Froch at least once if Booth was in the corner for both fights.
    kojak, Furey, zulander and 1 other person like this.
  3. DJN16

    DJN16 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Sep 15, 2013
    I think Groves was what he was really. Very good ability, at times boxed with his hands to low. Average chin with questionable stamina. I'm sure he could have been more disciplined during certain fights but he never would have been no 1 in a genuine strong division.
    Momus likes this.
  4. bbjc

    bbjc Well-Known Member Full Member

    Feb 25, 2012
    Think he,d have done better under booth. But probably not have been as popular....think a lot of their problems we,re because groves wanted off the leash to show his ability and booth kept reigning him in because he knows what it takes to win fights at the top level.

    Groves was off the leash that first froch fight without booth reigning him in and was as good as he looked...but it probably cost him the fight in honesty. Turned out allright for him in the end but like most brits the weight caught up with him...they leave it too late to move up. Think he was struggling way before callum smith so he was trying to bang guys out earlyish....but who did he really beat. He had potential to beat them all imo....but needed to get the balance right. Still think booth would have got more out of him legacy wise. Mcguigan done a good job getting him as fit as he could considering the weight cut that for me was starting to have effect.

    Just possibly missing the chin to beat them all....had all the tools otherwise tho.

    Would have achieved more if he,d have avoided the froch fights to further develop first....but it turned out great for him financially and got his name out there. Swings and roundabouts really.

    Very good fighter groves tho. Could have took bigger scalps with booth imo.
    kojak and davidmcallister like this.
  5. Scissors

    Scissors Posts are sponsored by Matchroom Full Member

    Feb 11, 2018
    Groves reached his ceiling. He came up against an elite level advisory in Froch and ultimately he valiantly fell short. He still reached a very high level and can always hold his head up. I think if Groves was coming through now when there is no Froch he would have achieved a lot more but the Cobra took his soul.
    im sparticus and Jurgen like this.
  6. Jurgen

    Jurgen Boxing Addict Full Member

    Sep 30, 2016
    Got to agree he maximised his potential and nearly pulled off a huge upset in the Frock 1 fight.

    Fought in front of 80,000 at Wembley you know, just in case you never heard Frock mentioning it.

    Another non elite World Champion who had a very good career - pity he did not finish when his career ended in round 12 of the Eubank fight with the shoulder injury. The Smith defeat and performance leaves a bad taste when people think of his legacy.
    Suspect.chin likes this.
  7. destruction

    destruction Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Mar 26, 2009
    He reached the top of the division and was a world champion. Given his weaknesses this was some achievement.

    I don’t think he could have achieved anymore than that. The Froch losses were devastating at the time but he did bounce back from that and go onto achieve his dreams.
  8. Twentyman

    Twentyman John Fury’s nut sack.... Full Member

    Apr 20, 2016
    We have the benefit of hindsight now, but I do wish he’d retired after the Junior fight. That was some fight to sign off from, and to hang in there with one arm against a ferocious fighter like Junior should have been how we remember him. Instead, he got patched up and had a go with an extremely hungry Smith. To be fair, I thought Groves actually won more rounds but every time Callum caught him he was clearly hurt.

    He was one of my favourite fighters and I think he had a very good career. He won a world title, albeit in a period of transition for the division, and got wins over Degale and Eubank so I’m sure he’ll be pleased. World class but not elite.
    Jurgen and Suspect.chin like this.
  9. Wig

    Wig Boxing Addict Full Member

    May 31, 2010
    Froch beats him 100 times out of 100. He landed a punch from the gods right onto Frochs jawbone in round one of Froch I and still got stopped by him twice.
  10. Furey

    Furey EST & REG 2009 Full Member

    Oct 18, 2009
    I followed Groves from when he turned over as a pro, seen him box live many a time and as a fighter he really did bring excitement when he boxed. He could bang, he had some vulnerability coincided with a big heart (as first shown in the Kenny Anderson fight), he could box and move, have a tear up, stick to a game plan (e.g. Degale)……….. he had a lot of tools.

    In my opinion, if he had Booth in his corner in that first fight v Froch then in all likelihood he wins the title that night. Yeah I think Froch went in there thinking he was going to absolutely steam roll him but that aside, Groves was superb. He was catching Froch at will round after round, but he got to greedy at times which was effectively allowing Froch back into the fight and led to the Howard Foster fiasco. I just think that Booth would have been a source of authority in the corner and reigned George back when necessary.

    As for whether he should have linked up with McGuigan straight after leaving Booth, I see where your coming from but I'm actually not sure if at that stage in George's career if that link up would have worked. Groves has always been known to be extremely headstrong and was happy to go against the grain if he thought he was the one in the right, McGuigan was an even younger trainer back then and I'm not sure the dynamic between them at that stage in George's career would have perhaps worked out...... Groves pretty much said the same when asked that question in an interview. I think they found each other at the right time, with Groves having matured more, been through the experiences he went through in and out of the ring and having an older head on his shoulders.

    That said, the link up with Paddy Fitzpatrick really didn't work out and I think that partnership was a mistake. If he had linked up with a different / experienced trainer, a few things may have worked out differently for Groves.... the close fight with Badou Jack being one of them and not allowing Groves to be out doing so much media work in the lead up to the Froch rematch being the other (Froch was training like a machine with his head on the job and no distractions, while Groves was parading round numerous events selling the fight).
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  11. MorvidusStyle

    MorvidusStyle Active Member Full Member

    Jul 11, 2017
    Froch KO and the style change from Paddy clearly messed him up in the prime of his career. Putting that guy in a coma also hampered him. Then a freak injury in the Eubank fight. Booth clearly a POS to abandon a fighter right before the most important fight and still want to take his money as manager. That was totally f-cked up, regardless of any fallout.
    I think he had some bad luck in the end which must have clipped his wings a bit. That Froch punch was clearly a rare hit, Groves took a lot of shots in the first fight without that kind of effect, so for it to happen that night was a disaster.
    kojak likes this.
  12. Hattonmad

    Hattonmad Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jan 5, 2009
    Great post. Groves got to a stage of his career where he thought he knew it all and didn't need a top trainer. He needed humbling and that's what happened. Subsequently the McGuigan link up worked a treat.
    kojak likes this.
  13. moog

    moog Boxing Addict Full Member

    Mar 12, 2012
    In my opinion he would never have been an ATG. All the UK all time greats I have seen had better stamina and physical toughness, things that are needed to be a top top fighter. Groves was brave but his body couldnt withstand punishment like your greats. Not saying Ricky Burns is a great but he had a better career than someone like Groves as he had the
    stamina and physical toughness. Obviously he had other qualities, but without those he would not have been anywhere near as good.
  14. kojak

    kojak Well-Known Member Full Member

    Apr 22, 2012
    Could of been 'better' results wise, as numerous posters have have said already, if he had followed gameplan more rather than wanting to unleash himself.

    However, he lit a rocket under the arse or British boxing and captured the public's imagination and heart after the Froch fight.

    He left the sport with a lot of money, became world champion, gave us many a memorable night (which he can also look back on) and is living inside Frochs head rent free for life.

    I think he realised once he retired when he mentioned about 'what is greatness?'.

    The fact he did things his way, what he did for British boxing (at the time of the Froch rematch for example) and the fact he captured the hearts & minds of the British boxing fans.

    If you asked him if he would trade all that, for a few Ws rather than Ls on his record I think his answer would be no.
    Twentyman and Furey like this.
  15. Furey

    Furey EST & REG 2009 Full Member

    Oct 18, 2009
    Good post. Groves certainly left his mark.

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