How Good is Shane against elite opposition

Mosley is overrated.

Margarito was beaten in the dressing room by Nazim and the commission before even coming out to the ring. Any top 5 WW would have taken him out that night, IMO.

I don't remember anyone saying they thought Mosley won the Cotto fight until he beat Margarito. Cotto beat him clearly and then \gave up some of the later rounds because he decided to fight cautiously and cruise to a decision win.

 

I think you are missing the point .Shane was beaten by a long jab against V. Forrest and W.Wright ,it countered his speed. Now he is 40 year old (almost) ,Inactive and like a lot of old fighters they have one great fight left in them.I think that was Margarito.

 

I'm uploading Mosley's absolute battering of Ceballos today or tomorrow as well; that should get a few people's attention.

 

Pacquiao never fought Juan Diaz, "you slapdick".

Well let's take away Pacquiao's win over Cotto because he was roiding, his win over DLH who was weight drained, his win over Hatton who was over-rated, and his wins over shot Morales and shot Barrera. What are we left with?

The whole point is that, if you tenuously dismiss all of a fighter's best wins, he's obviously not going to look too great.

 

Utter bull****. There's NO evidence to suggest that Margo was any different to usual. He was outboxed, plain and simple. Actually, the very fact that he managed to walk through such a battering for 9 rounds suggests that he was on decent mental form.

Not really, Mosley was pinching a round or two here and there for pretty much the whole fight. If anything, it was Cotto who was doing the better work late after Mosley gassed so early.

 

Shane against opposition since 2006:

2 wins over a faded Fernando Vargas
A dominant win over Luis Collazo
A loss to Miguel Cotto
A win over Mayorga(In my opinion the fight was up for grabs going into the 12th)
A dominant KO win over Antonio Margarito

Now in analyzing these wins, his best performances were against guys whom weren't very good boxers and were either standing still or coming forward in a straight line.

His losses and tight victories, outside of Luis Collazo, came against guys who boxed and gave him all sort of angles.

Mayweather is going to beat him down and I wouldn't be surprised if Mayweather KO's him. Not saying he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell, but I wouldn't beat on Shane Mosley with 5 to 1 odds in favor of Mayweather. perhaps 10 to 1 for Mayweather, but not 5 to 1.

 

Shane (steroids I want to win it doesn't matter how) Mosley is done and floidrunner knows it.

 

Margo was smiling at Mosley when he got hit. He was nothing like the motivated swarmer who broke down Cotto. No emotions during the fight, just action.

If you think Margo was not phased by the fact that he had some debts to pay immediately after the fight, WIN OR LOSE, you are an idiot.

... You must not have seen the Cotto/Mosley fight if you think the stuff he was doing late was as effective as what he was doing to Mosley early.

 

Show me specific examples of something Margo was able to pull off pre-Mosley that he wasn't that night.

The simple fact is that Margarito was always going to look bad against somebody who had the intelligence to stay away and starve his work rate, the speed to beat him to the punch from the outside, the power to stun him and stop him firing back, and then the strength to tie him up before he got a chance to start working. Mosley was that person. Weird **** happens in boxing.

 

Not to mention Shane was the one who had "mind problems" coming into the fight. He had the steroid allegations and his divorce overshadowing him before the fight and his focus was being questioned by the analysts. He did something great that night and everyone dismisses it as a fight taylor made for him. Thats not what everyone thought before the fight when talks of Shane getting stopped and sent into retirement were running crazy.

 

Dead on. As I understand it, he even had to break training camp on more than one occasion to go into LA to deal with legal proceedings.

 

People are forgetting Mosley started at 135 where he was also a champ. They are also forgetting he fought opponents which were high risk low reward, which many fighters avoided. Mosley fought them though not only once but twice. Many fighters would have never done and giving opportunities to Wright or Forrest like Mosley did. Let alone fight them twice.

 

Good fighter - Yes. Great fighter - No.

I can't give him credit for beating Oscar. A win over Margo is semi impressive. He knocked out a guy whom many thought couldn't get knocked out, and that's great. But we don't know how good Margo is without his use of plaster. I mean a fighter can have a steel chin but that doesn't automatically make him a great fighter. Of course if he beats Floyd, Shane will be able to better his status/reputation ten-fold.

 

This thread's question is so predictably ***** generated.

Shane because he lacked a major promoter throughout most of his career didn't get to fight against a ton of elite competition.

But when he did get a chance in his late 20's (around 28yrs of age if my memory serves me), he beat DLH clearly (despite the one judge who had it for DLH).

The only other ELITE fighters (and by ELITE I mean a P4P guy or someone who was on the cusp of P4P), that Shane fought was Vernon Forrest, Winky Wright, Cotto, and Margarito.

Therefore that would make Shane 3-3

He defeated DLH 2x despite the eternal laments of DLH fans who don't understand that late rounds count, and you don't score points by merely moving and throwing a jab that doesn't land.

And he defeated Margarito. If you don't consider Margo an Elite fighter then nothing I can say can probably help you. Below you will find who Margo defeated at Welter:

Clottey, Cotto, Cintron, and Martinez (this fight was an after thought till recent events). It is also important to take note of his very close points loss to Paul Williams.

Margarito may not have a style you like, and he may not possess the skills that you prefer in your fighters but he was ELITE. Just like Carmen Basilio was ELITE.

Shane lost to Vernon 2x. Vernon was extremely difficult fighter to face at welter, and he lost to Winky 2x. But the 2nd fight with Winky was extremely close, almost as close as Shane's loss to Cotto.

Out of all those losses the Cotto fight is believed to be the fight Shane could have won if given a second go round. Because it was clear Shane made some tactical errors that were easily correctable.

Shane's biggest problem is fans such as yourself. Your boxing acumen is limited to the very recent. You are really a borderline casual fan, and it shows because you don't have much respect for fighters like Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright.

These two fighters were not stars when they were fighting in their primes, and they don't cast very large shadows with casual fans. But hardcore boxing enthusiasts know two sure fired HOF when they see them.

And that is what both Vernon and Winky are.....HOF.


Now I will pose this question to you. How is PBF versus ELITE (aka: P4P competition)? First who was P4P or on the cusp when he fought them:

Corrales - He was on the list (at about 9 or 10 if my memory serves me) and Floyd got a dominant win. But I highly doubt any hardcore fans believe Corrales rates higher than Vernon or Winky. I would put Corrales even with Margarito.

Ricky Hatton - He was on the list (somewhere between 5-7 I think....too lazy to go check Ring Archives). Floyd got a KO win, but again both Corrales and Hatton are no where near rated as fighters as Vernon and Winky. They aren't even rated as highly as Cotto.

Juan Manuel Marquez - He was on the list (at 2 or 3 I believe). Now JMM is rated higher than Vernon (based on career), and depending on who you talk to Winky is either even with him or just under JMM. But here is the big problem with this dominant win.....JMM IS NOT A FREAKIN WELTERWEIGHT! This fight quite FRANKLY MEANS NOTHING and I do mean NOTHING!

So in conclusion PBF is 2-0 against elite competition, but has faced less P4P competition than Shane, and he has faced the LOWER RANKED P4P competition.

I would even go as so far and say the INFERIOR elite competition when you match them up to each other.

Floyd actually does better in comparison against Shane in non elite competition, where he has faced overall a slightly better caliber of opposition.

 

elite fighters beating non-entities always makes them look good, but it's what fighters do against the biggest fights of their career that really counts.