How good is the "average" pro fighter?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by tinman, Aug 1, 2020.


  1. davidjay

    davidjay Well-Known Member Full Member

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    The guys who have that many fights know how to not get caught. I don;t know what the situation is in the States, but in the UK a four-rounder where a boxer starting out comes up against an opponent with a 5% winning record is often little more than glorified sparring - and I say that with the ultimate respect to anyone who gets in there.
     
  2. bcr

    bcr Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I teached a friend how to throw proper punches and he hasn't lost a single street fight since, even against bigger guys yet I barely break a sweat when we spar. Then I go to the gym and I go down with the first well placed liver shot by an active competitive boxer and that guy goes down easily against the national champion then that guy loses easily against guy that represents my country internationally and then that guy losses easily against the Cuban in an international tournament. There are too many layers and people understimate how dangerous a competitive fighter is, they are way stronger, way faster and way meaner than you think and if anyone ever doubts that, just join a gym.
     
  3. Bujia

    Bujia Member Full Member

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    If you’re ranked #700 in your weight class, you’re not average. Odds are there’s little separating you from the boxer ranked #1100 or #1200. Once you get that deep into rankings, you’re basically just throwing darts blind folded. All you can be sure of is that you’re landing on a scrub.

    You guys seem to think there’s as careful and deliberate a process differentiating between those guys as there is when differentiating between the 20th and 30th ranked fighters. There isn’t. Not even in the same ballpark. The difference between #500 and #1500 is significantly less pronounced than the difference between #1 and #60.

    If a guy is ranked #1000 in his weight class, there’s no telling how bad he is. He may not have even picked up the gloves before registering for his boxing license to make extra money for his family on the weekends. He’s not gonna have any clout in any gym, anywhere. He might not even be able to hit a speed bag properly.

    Becoming a pro boxer isn’t like making it to the NBA or NFL after graduating from college (the amateurs). You don’t need to pass the bar to make it. Pretty much anyone with a clean bill of health, the money to pay the fee, and the willingness to get in the ring can turn pro.

    So when people tell you there are better amateurs than pros, they’re not blowing smoke. The best amateur boxers are already better than all but the top level pros that have had championship experience.

    The amateurs are a different discussion altogether, though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
  4. macademics

    macademics Active Member Full Member

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    Even the amateur who is exceptional can just as easily turn pro and become no better then British level at best as well. One of my former gym mates was Michael Grant - who beat Jamie Cox in the 140 ABA finals back in 2004-2005 and was 95-10 as an AM.


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    Couldn't do anything in the pro's - I seen him get cooked by lesser AM gym mates in sparring after both turned pro as well. Boxing is a proper funny game.
     
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  5. Bujia

    Bujia Member Full Member

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    That’s also true. There are guys who have styles suited almost entirely to the amateur system that don’t translate in the pro game. Zou Shiming is the best recent example. 2 time Olympic Gold Medalist and 1 time Bronze Medalist. One of only 6 (I believe) fighters in history to win medals in 3 different Olympic Games.

    Granted, he didn’t turn pro until he was 31 (going on 32), but without some major adjustments he’d have never been an elite level pro. No conviction in his punches. His game plan was basically to move as much as possible and force the opponent to engage off balance, where he’d redirect them with a scoring tap on the head. Granted, that shows very good ring generalship, but it’s a lot more effective in a 3 round fight where time is of the essence and the entire object is hitting in quantity in lieu of quality.

    Oleg Saitov was another 3 time Medalist (2 gold, 1 bronze again) who was quite similar. He never turned pro. Good call if you ask me.

    But for every fighter like them there’s several more that could’ve and likely would’ve had very successful pro careers if they had decided to take that route. I think Alexei Tischenko (2 time gold medalist in two different divisions) was on a similar level skill wise to Lomachenko and had the style to make the easy transition. But, he chose not to. Like most of them. There’s not nearly as much incentive over there as there is in the West, for a variety of reasons.
     
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  6. wutang

    wutang Active Member Full Member

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    I think if you were an average joe training at a gym to be an amateur fighter you would be a huge fan of any pro that trained there. There's levels and even fighters who are seen as bums compared to or tune ups for elites would be revered by their peers in the gym.
     
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  7. Roughhouse

    Roughhouse Member Full Member

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    It's a great question. I think back a lot to being a teenage working out at the downtown PAL and seeing the "Indiana heavyweight champion" Rick Enis, an absolute journeyman of no real note, spar and hit the bags. He was an absolute terror compared to the amateur heavies there and very intimidating with what he could do on the bags for speed and power. He could clean out any bar on the Eastside of Indy with no worries. Then he sparred one day with Tom Prater, who was a ranked heavyweight who went the distance with Larry Holmes on TV and got taken to school and looked awkward and tentative. As Wutang said above, levels and more levels. Lord help what a Lennox Lewis or some other genetic freak/ATG could do if seen in a common perspective.
     
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  8. gerryb

    gerryb Well-Known Member Full Member

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    ranked 700 out of tens of millions?Not average.
     
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  9. Bujia

    Bujia Member Full Member

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    There are just over 23,000 licensed and registered boxers accounted for in the world currently. And that #700 ranking you were referring to is for 1 weight class out of 17.

    Time to come back down to Earth.
     
  10. gerryb

    gerryb Well-Known Member Full Member

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    not average. Get in the ring with one.
     
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  11. Bujia

    Bujia Member Full Member

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    I could be one in a week if I wanted to. The only requirements to turn pro (though it can vary from state to state) are to pass a physical and pay the license fee. Boom, that easy. No background necessary (might depend on your location). Turning pro is no accomplishment at all. Literally none. You don’t need to exercise, diet or train if you don’t care to. You don’t even have to know how to hit a speed bag. And I’d be willing to bet a big stack of dough that that’s what a good deal of the bottom ranked fighters are in it for. To take a dive and collect a check. No shame in that.

    You guys really need a reality check, though. You act like sparring with a bottom of the barrel pro boxer is the equivalent of playing a scrimmage against the third string players in the NFL. That could not be more untrue. Everybody that makes the NFL is automatically among the best football players in the world. Whereas some “pro boxers” couldn’t even handle a physical disagreement at a bar without catching a beating.

    All the talent and all the money in boxing is at the very top.
     
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  12. gerryb

    gerryb Well-Known Member Full Member

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    why dont you?sounds easy
     
  13. Bujia

    Bujia Member Full Member

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    I already have a job that pays far more and is a bit less hazardous. But yes, it is certainly easy to do.
     
  14. gerryb

    gerryb Well-Known Member Full Member

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    bit of a contradiction mate,you re saying its hazardous but its easy?At heavyweight i guess you are dealing with big guys who can punch,correct?
     
  15. Bujia

    Bujia Member Full Member

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    I said it’s easy to turn pro, not to actually box. You can be a licensed professional boxer with no fight record and no training. And plenty of those ranked #I000 or so are doing just that. I haven’t even discussed what happens when you actually get inside the ring. That’s not a part of the point I’m making.