How good was Andre Ward?

Career protection by referees, decisions, fight locations and politics. Clearly lost to Kovalev. Would have been destroyed by Beterbiev, even as juiced as he was.

 

Thanks for letting me know, Bokaj! I had no idea beforehand.

 

Beat every top and midranked fighter in his division (going in multiple times as the underdog), then went up another division and challenged one of the most heavy hyped up and feared light heavies of the last 45 years, and beat him too (again as an underdog).
Absolutely incredible career and track record! Many of these fights came against other undefeated fighters.
His later career was hampered by stretches of inactivity, but he certainly made the most of time when he was active.
I can't think of another fighter off the top of my head that wiped out such upper echelons of the availabile competition, and did it in such relatively few fights.

 

Unfortunately, for Andre's legacy, that fight is available for all to see.

The feelings of most observers on that decision were best summed up by Larry Merchant, who termed it "Home cooking."

Judges gifted him Kov 1.

Ref gifted him Kov 2.

He was a decent SMW...behind Calzaghe, Roy Jones and James Toney.

Nothing more.

 

Well I thought he had done enough to win. Not as though any other ATG has never won a controversial or debatable decision.

But Ward did the right thing, gave that boy an immediate rematch for all the marbles, and then proceeded to shatter his heart and soul, forcing him to quit in shame in front of the whole world.

His fan boys tried TO THIS DAY to push the low blow narrative, but Kovalev proved in subsequent outings that his warrior spirit was gone forever (not something that typically happens as a result of low blows)

 

He was the Floyd Mayweather of the Light Heavies. Sweeeeeeeet to watch and skilled as heck, but at the same time booooooring!

In this context there is nothing wrong with being boring as people who put me to sleep like Willie Pep for example, are all time greats. I rank Pep at #7 or #8 all time pfp. Doesnt mean I will have a Willie Pep watch-a-thon very soon.

 

Pep-Saddler IV was quite a viewing.

 

Actually, it is very understandable that his "warrior spirit " would be gone.

Being cheated out of what's rightfully yours twice, once by judges and once by a ref ( and that second fight is also there for all to see), could well be demoralizing.

 

That low blow narrative is among the sillier ones. The last punch was low and of course better if it wasn't, but it was because he had no clear sight of the target area due to Kov being doubled up, and it wasn't in any way decisive. The damage had already been done.

 

May have just been one of the most entitled examples of privilege I have ever heard

 

Yeah I remember Kovalev leaning over to avoid punishment more than I do any low blows .

But the best part of their argument is that these are the VERY SAME PEOPLE who praise Marcos Maidanas foul fested efforts against Floyd Mayweather, and claim he was somehow short changed by the decision!!

 

I remember them as pretty clear low blows. And as I said, the video is there to be viewed.

Additionally, the judges had Ward ahead going into the final round when he was clearly trailing.

And if the ref thought Ward's show were legit, he should have given Kov a standing eight count.

Kovalev suffered the same fate as GGGin his first bout with Canelo...home cooked decision.

And yes, it is demoralizing to know that you won but that your opponent go the W.

Not sure who "they" and "their" refers to here, nor what relevance it has here.

You can go back and check my posts on Floyd-Maidana.

I had both for Floyd...

First fight was 7-5, the second was a more convincing 8-4.

The only fight I scored against Floyd was Castillo (1) which I scored 7-5 for Castillo.

I gave Floyd the rematch by the same margin.

 

I remember Kovalevs body language that last round clearly indicating he did not wish to continue fighting...I mean he was one step short of turning his back and walking off like Roberto Duran, and he probably would have if not for the fact that Ward had him glued to the ropes

 

Yes, morality concerning fouls is in general very flexible on this forum. Tyson fans will be very strict with the standards when talking about Holyfield, but extremely quiet on Tyson's own dirty tactics for example. Frazier fans will endlessly complain about Ali holding, but not say a word about Frazier being liberal with the use of his head (something Eliis made sure to mention before their fight) and his targeting of the hips, which strictly speaking are low blows. It's also popular to echo Chuvalo's claim that Ali pissed blood after their first fight (unclear where he got that from, though) without mentioning his many low blows in said fight.

And have anyone ever said that Foreman's KO of Frazier is illegitimate because of his brutal right to the back of Joe's head as he stumbled away? Or Tyson's KO of Williams, where Tyson's last "blow" was with his head? Or Tyson's second win over Ruddock, which had low blows galore?

And so on, and so on. It is a very selective habit to bring up fouls that's for sure.

 

He had already doubled over and complained to the ref about a perfectly legal low blow. The "dirty" Ward could have done to him then what Floyd did to Ortiz, but he didn't. That situation is of course never brought up, even though Kova clearly bought himself time after being hurt by a good blow.

The last few rds he looked ever more like a beaten fighter and Ward was smelling the blood and then pounced. All she wrote, really.