How Good Was Bernard Hopkins In His 1993 Loss To Roy Jones?

You can usually tell at the early stages of a pros career if he has certain potentials or not. These guys are sparring experienced fighters and champions early on, 99% of them are before they even turn pro, because fighters always need sparring partners... Its common place to see a young contender sparring with an experienced elite fighter, so you see a guy in the gym hangin with a champion, you know hes got some stuff.
Im sure his team knew he was pretty good, and I dont think they did a bad job moving him along or rushing him into the Jones fight, because it would be a long time before Hopkins lost again on the upper level of the division so he was ready for it, just not good enough to beat Jones who was pretty much on the same path in his career at the time.

 

It probably was. I just don't think he could have become so dramatically different in terms of quality. I haven't followed Hopkins as closely as you, so this is a more instinctive feel.

I'd say he was much more than just a decent contender at the time (he was only a couple of months away from one of his greatest perfomances after all), but you're right that he improved quite a bit in just the following 2-3 years.

Many of the ATGs with solid amateur background seems to have come quite far after their first 20 fights. Not finished products, but at least on the verge of greatness. Ali/Clay, SRL, Hearns, Whitaker, Tyson, Mayweather, Bowe and Holyfield are good examples here. And most of these guys were quite a bit younger than 28 at the time. Age is of course an important factor since you mature a lot physically as well as mentally during these years.

The one other I can think of at that age with a similar amount of fights that still was a bit shy of the finished product is Lewis.

 

Good enough to come in runner-up in a two-man contest!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2_gb99ak30[/ame]

www.youtube.com/eslubin

 

One thing that clearly separates young Hopkins from 99% of prospects you see today is that Bouie Fisher already had him completely schooled in defense. He was way, way more aggressive than he is now, and he would get hit sometimes, but his transitions from offense to defense were very smooth and he had a firm grip on keeping his chin tucked and blocking with his front shoulder in that modified "roll" he uses still.

By the time he fought Roy, he was experienced but still pre-prime and green at the championship level. But it takes two to put on a boring fight. Bernard looked lost trying to cut the ring off against Roy, and Roy respected him enough not to come running in at wild angles like he usually does.

In any case, prime for prime anywhere between 160 and 168, I think Roy wins about 8/10, with all ten fights being pretty forgettable pose fests. Styles favor his Royness in this matchup.

 

Of course Hopkins and his team knew he was pretty good. Like I said he was a good contender. I stated it before in other threads. It was a good win over a good contender. His team probably thought they´ve got another beltholder in their hands but nobody thought he would become an atg. Jones on the other hand was seen as a future atg. People knew hos special he was back then. Nobody at the time thought this of Hopkins. And that´s what you have to go by, how they were seen at the time of the fight, not what they would do later on. That´s my point. Not more, not less.

Well, I don´think atgs are born. They are made or make themselves into ones. Some have the natural ability for it, like Jones, some have to take a harder path, like Hopkins. It´s not as if Hopkins went from "good contender level" against Jones to "atg-level" against Johnson. He wasn´t an atg against Johnson, and neither was Jones against Hopkins btw.. But both Hopkins and Jones showed in those fights that they had atg potential. It took Hopkins longer to develop this potential than Jones.

Yes, I think Jones and Mercado I improved him dramatically. Hopkins is a thinking fighter, a fighter who get´s more out of experiences like this than most other fighters. He sees things most others don´t and can improve on those things. That´s what makes him a great fighter. But he needed the experience to develop his potential.

Sven Ottke, no he is no atg, turned pro at 28 years of age, after more than 300 amateur fights. In the amateur he beat fighters like Michael Moorer, Chris Byrd, Juan Carlos Gomez, Antonio Tarver, Zsolt Erdei Dariusz Michaelchewski. Some of them more than once. He won his first belt after 11 fights. Of course he did. He fought at the top level for more than a decade before, he didn´t change his style, he just adjusted to 3 minute rounds and the longer distance. He developed already everything what he was about, the footwork, the judge of distance, accuracy, timing. All refined in more than 300 fights with many, many of them beeing against very, very good fighters.
Hopkins had amateur fights but never on this level. So, he needed much more experience in the professional ranks to develop what he is about.

Yeah, Lewis is a good example. :good

 

What exactly do you know whom he fought before getting into prison? I've heard gossips he was good enough to be considered for national 1984 olympic box-offs.

Local newspapers (Post, Times) would have mentioned if the odds were that big, and they didn't say a word about the odds, neither pre- or post-fight. So, I'm highly doubtful. Hopkins was being praised pre-fight (by people who saw him fight and train) as being of champions' material, talent and skill-wise. It was expected to be the best fight on the card.

 

Close-fighting skills improved after the Hopkins bout. Better timing/prediction, better range control (although these might have looked worse vs Hopkins because of the injured right hand, he had to do adjustments due to it).

 

And if Bowe had taken on and beaten Lewis in 1993 that would have improved his record substantially (if Lewis then had continued his career as it turned out). It would be his second best win without a doubt. I would have seen it as one of the best HW wins over the last 30 years.

 

Only because outside of Holyfield his resume is so poor. I really don´t rate Bowe highly.

 

The thing is that I don't know, and that's the problem.

Well, I have a figure from two newspapers, and it's a reasonable number as far as I'm concerned considering how hyped up Jones was.

 

'How Good Was Bernard Hopkins In His 1993 Loss To Roy Jones?', depends if you look at it in a World or American context, in an American context it was a good win for Roy Jones as both boxers were very good at the domestic level but in a World context looking at Hopkins resume and Roy Jones resume they are not that great, its laughable that some people criticise Calzaghes, Hopkins and Jones versus Calzaghe back in the day would have been interesting.
Jones has only fought away once and that was towards the end of his career getting knocked out in the first round by an Aussie in Australia and Hopkins has only won one out of three bouts away from home, drawing in Ecuador and Canada and winning on points in France against a boxer that had lost as many fights as he had won.
Calzaghes wins in the States against Hopkins and Jones were both very good, I wonder what chances either American would have had if they had boxed Calzaghe in front of 50,000 plus fans in Wales, I see it as a home win for Joe Calzaghe over both Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones Jnr, as regards this thread a good win for Jones at the time.

 

So both Ottke and Calzaghe beat future World Heavyweight champ Chris Byrd in the amateurs ?, Ottke even beat Tarver who became the first man to beat Roy Jones Jnr in the pro ranks, perhaps the Americans hype up their boxers like Hopkins and Jones to be better than they are ?, an amateur tournie between Jones, Hopkins, Calzaghe and Ottke would have been interesting, Jones and his controversial silver medal in the Olympics and Calzaghe not getting picked despite approximately only losing 2 out of 120 bouts as he showboated and tapped boxers on the head during his bouts was not seen as the done thing in the amateurs by the authorities, it would have been fun to see him do that to old jail bird Bhops there again I suppose he did worse than that to him in the ring when they fought in the pro's.
The fantasy amateur tournie would have to have been between Jones and Calzaghe with Ottke probably beating Hopkins for third place ?.

 

Dennis Andries UD Joe Calzaghe