How good was Dempsey's title reign?

if Dempsey was only interested in the most competitive matches the Greb is completely out of the equation.

The poll you list has Willard at No1 yet Dempsey had nearly killed Willard a couple of years earlier.

Gene Tunney had beaten Greb 3 times with Tunney being completely dominant over him from 1923 onwards. you also forget to mention Greb was ordered to fight Tiger Flowers in 1925 and had lost to Loughran in 1923.. 8 or 10 round no-decision fights are not for the Heavyweight title.

 

$100,000 not $300,000+... by your call Dempsey recieved no gate reciepts for any fights with Carpentier, Brennen etc...i have read plenty of accounts of the Tunney vs Greb fights and Tunney won easier each time they fought (Boxing on the back page) is the book for you to read....Greb was never a HEAVYWEIGHT CONTENDER prove me wrong and show a link

Why should Dempsey fight Greb if Greb was past his prime and blind in one eye like you claim he was when his promoters offered Dempsey a meagre $100,000

it's starting to get embarassing klomptom,McGrane & JAB on this subject

 

Actually your wrong. The bout was scheduled to be held on Labor Day. That was one of the biggest boxing days of the year at that time. If the bout was going to be held a new out door arena had to be built, promotional items, tickets, etc had to be printed, everything had to be planned out and of course the bout had to be promoted. That gives you a limited time to accomplish all of that. Are just supposed to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars and hope Dempsey would show up? He kind of had a history of not aggressively seeking matches and sitting on the fence...

Dempsey made $300,000 for Carpentier. He was gauranteed $100,000 AND 50% of the gate. If the bout had made even less than half as much as the Carpentier bout Dempsey would have carried off $350,000. More than he had ever made. There is no reason to believe that with Pittsburghs location, train lines, river access, major metropolitan location etc etc. that the bout wouldnt have drawn a great audience.

Use your head before you post nonsense.

 

so Dempsey and Kearns just sit back and let some Pittsburg guys make a killing off their name and reputation

 

i recall no links... put them up again and i will forever hold my tongue

 

Simply not true. By your own admission Willard wasnt worthy of a second fight with Dempsey and yet this was a match that Dempsey and Kearns were actively seeking to make ABOVE Greb for four years.

Again, you are wrong. Greb and Tunney fought five times. Greb easily won the first. The second was a massive robbery, considered one of the worst robberies in History at the time and I would refer you to previous posts before I rehash that argument with you again (although based on some of the things youve said I am beginning to believe you were the person that argument began with...) their Third match was won by Tunney fair and square, their fourth match in Cleveland was called by most a win for Greb, some called it a draw, and a couple of writers in the minority thought Tunney won. Their fifth fight, was the only one in which Tunney showed any marked superiority over Greb.

I fail to see what Greb-Flowers or Loughran have to do with anything. The Loughran bout was considered controversial with several of Loughrans own hometown writers stating they felt he lost. Yes Flowers was selected to fight Greb by the New York State Athletic Commission (Much like Wills was selected to fight Dempsey) the difference is that Greb manned up and actually did it. Dempsey never did. However, this didnt happen until December of 1925 after Flowers lost a very controversial decision to Mike McTigue. It was considered a robbery and Flowers, not McTigue was given the shot at the MW title. None of that has anything to with Dempsey though as both of those occurances came more than four years into Dempsey's reign and the loss to Flowers in early 1926 basically knocked Greb down the latter to contender status again and signalled the fact that he had now slipped quite far from even 1922 when he was already being called slower than he had been in his prime of 1919.

That being said, from 1919 when Dempsey won the title, to the summer of 1925 when promoters were still trying to match Greb and Dempsey. Greb was indeed a contender. Regardless of his loss to Tunney earlier in the year or his controversial defeat to Loughran (who was considered a future champion as early as 1922.

 

i have never ignored Greb's dominance over Miske or Brennan. yet i find it similar to how Lennox Lewis chose to fight Frans Botha instead of John Ruiz or Tony Tucker instead of Riddick Bowe or how Floyd Patterson chose to fight Tom McNeeley instead of Sonny Liston.

 

And Rickard did what?

They were offered 50% of the gate. Show me where Dempsey was ever offered that much and turned it down? Show me were Dempsey ever stood to make that much for what you deem such an easy fight and took it?

I find it absolutely ludicrous that people can say Dempsey would have beaten Greb and Wills and that he didnt duck them and yet he was offered ENORMOUS sums of money to fight them (he is a prizefighter after all) and yet never did. The bottom line is, and one which none of his apologists can stand against, that if Dempsey and Kearns and Rickard thought Dempsey could have beaten Wills and Greb as easily as his deluded fans do then they would have made those matches, beat them easily, and laughed all the way to the bank with the richest prizes in the history of sports to that time. They didnt so obviously they didnt think as much of their chances as you do and as such chose less money against lesser opposition to keep the gravy train rolling on lucrative vaudville, circus, exhibition, and movie tours.

 

Why is this still going on, seriously? The last 10 pages the same **** has been repeated over and over and Dempsey doesnt have a leg to stand on

 

Are you stupid? A $100,000 gaurantee PLUS (MEANING IN ADDITION TO THE $100,000 he is already gauranteed) 50% percent of the gate. That means the ONLY WAY DEMPSEY IS MAKING ONLY $100,000 is if NOBODY BUYS A SINGLE TICKET. Do some basic math. If the match makes $500,000 (which is a conservative estimate) Dempsey gets half of that ($250,000) PLUS $100,000. So Dempsey makes $350,000 gauranteed. Its simple. i dont know why you cant understand that.