How good was Dempsey's title reign?

it is quite simple why Tunney had to wait another 3yrs for a shot at Dempsey even tho he was repeatedly hammering Greb during those 3yrs it is because "No-one dictates to the Heavyweight Champion" it is as simple as that.. you are trying to put todays governing bodies rules into the sport 100yrs ago which is ridiculous.. Dempsey was the man and Greb was looking for a big payday with his promotion team wanting an 8rd no decision fight..i have never been banned from this forum or any other forum. i packed my bags and left the other forum with you frequent just like all the other poster have done over the last 6 months. reason being you and your idiotic antics which is why the traffic on that site is around 3 posts per week or less.. i was correct when i said your whole knowledge of this sport is 2 books and a career set of Tommy Morrison because you never make a post on any subject other than Greb, Langford & Morrison as you know nothing about any other fighters which is why if you do make a post it is a "HATE" post towards the greats of the past like Marciano, Frazier, Tyson, Tunney, Dempsey or Pep.

 

LOL that debate went on for over a month on the other site with most of your comments candidates for "Howler of the Century".. you trashed almost every achievement of Ray Robinsons as well as his opponents. claiming his colapsing due to heat exhaustion against Joey Maxim was due to him not being good enough to beat a 175 fighter whereas Greb beat Heavyweights you then trashed SRR by claiming Langford had a better resume oh you recall the debate alright but now try to deny it like the snake which you are... you even copied my first post on this site under this username and tried to ridicule it on the other site but it backfired when the 3 or 4 posters who frequent the site agreed with me the post was my Top 10 Heavyweights and you tried to claim Frazier, Dempsey, Marciano & Tunney are NOT Top 10 ATG fighters but Tommy Morrison is eh

 

I cant tell you much about Dempsey so i had a good look through this thread, i looked it up because my Grandad use to rant on that he was the hardest ******* ever and use to fight on the cobbles, but he seems to be getting abit of a kicking on here....
He certainly looked a tough contender. l.o.l
My grandad hasnt been feeding me some old toot has he. ?

 

You need to get several facts straight before you show how ignorant you are on this subject:

1. Greb did not have a promotional team. There was a group of Pittsburgh promoters who wanted to stage a Greb Dempsey bout and made offers as such. They had no more to with Greb than they did with Dempsey other than they came from the same city as him.

2. You are getting two fights confused. The proposed Pittsburgh fight was for 10 rounds, not 8. The proposed 8 round fight was being worked on in Philadelphia by Dempsey's friend Jimmy Dougherty, the Baron of Leiperville.

3. You say that no one dictates to the champion, and that you cant apply modern governing bodies rulings to that era. But you are wrong on both counts. Dempsey had six full years of inactivity (July 1919-Sept 1920, July 1921 - July 1923, and Sept 1923-Sept 1926) during his seven year reign. To pretend like the vast majority of boxing insiders werent nonplussed with this is to ignore a simple fact of the time. Furthermore, at the time the most powerful boxing organization in the world was the New York State Athletic Commission which was frequently on Dempsey's ass for his lack of action and his unwillingness to face his top challenger. It eventually got him banned in the state. So dont pretend like there was no impetus for him to fight better fights than he actually was.


So listen Old Fogey. Just answer one question: Were Miske, Carpentier, Gibbons, Brennan, and Firpo better challengers than Greb or Wills? Its a simple question. Three guys that Greb had shown he could dominate and one who wouldnt even spar with him and who turned down a $150,000 offer to face Greb instead chosing to face Siki for less than $20,000. So you can say no one dictates to the champion but when the champion is chosing to rest on his laurels through inactivity and non threatening fights then someone has to step in and criticise and thats just what happened. If you think Dempsey's reign was stronger for it, or even impressive because of it then congratulations. You drank the Kool aid that Kearns was making...

 

D, at that only because it's the lowest option on the poll.

Thanks for some of the very imformative posts in this thread.

Not a big admirer of Quarry's trolling however.

 

No, your grandad was telling the truth.
Dempsey was one of the greatest fighters ever.

 

my answer to your question. I think Firpo was as legitimate a challenger as was Wills. i am also of the opinion that Wills would not have lasted 3rds with Dempsey and my opinion is shared by many including Sam Langford... as for Carpentier, Gibbons & Brennen i feel they as bigger men was better challengers to the Heavyweight Title than what middleweight light punching Harry Greb was.. in a similar senario it is like asking who would be the better challenger for Carl Froch super-middleweight title - Manny Pacquiao or Antonio Margarito and my answer would be Margarito.

Your above response: Why would Kearns alow some other promoters to make a killing from his cashcow Dempsey? Does Bob Arum let Frank Warren come and make a promotional payday from Manny Pacquiao?

 

True, but the flipside to that is that the NY Commission issued a good number of statements against poposed Dempsey bouts - (which doesn't really help in combatting his inactivity) - not least a bout with Wills, either through reasons of "not wishing to discuss mixed bouts", or because they wanted to dicate ticket pricing and rally against commercialism.

The NYSAC played both tunes regarding the Wills-Dempsey match, especially under William Muldoon, who seemed to talk out against the match more often than the opposite.

 

Your logic seems to elude everybody in this thread.

Pac destroyed Marg, he would clearly be a better challenger. Just as Greb, somebody who was beating the top heavy's of the day and used to toy with Dempsey in sparring, would clearly have been a better challenger than others who got shots.

As for Wills, we will never know, Dempsey avoided him like the plague and refused to fight black fighters.

I suppose your idea of the greatest fight ever would be Valuev against Andre the giant, laughable logic...

 

It doesnt matter what your opinion of a Dempsey-Wills bout is. You werent even born then and nobody cares what you think anyway. What matters is whether he fought men who were as good or as threatening as Wills and Greb and by your statement you say in 7 years he fought one guy who was as good a challenger as Wills (despite the fact that that guy was dominated by Wills) and three men who were better suited to fight Dempsey than Greb (despite the fact that two were dominated by Greb and one wouldnt even come close to fighting him). That pretty much tells me how backward your hero worship is.

Bob Arum and Frank Warren are promoters (and more to the point Bob Arum has shared his promotional purse with other promoters several times). However this comparison is false because Kearns was not Dempsey's promoter. He was Dempsey's manager. Kearns never in his life got a single dollar of promotional revenue from any Dempsey purse. Therefore the idea that Kearns wasnt going to let another promoter make money off of Dempsey because it would have somehow taken money away from Kearns and Dempsey is just ignorant statement. Do you think Tex Rickard, and Floyd Fitzsimmons (both of whom promoted Dempsey as champion) made nothing for their efforts? The only promoter who didnt get paid for his efforts in promoting Dempsey as champion was Mike Collins and that had a lot more to do with Kearns basically killing the gate of that fight than it did with any agreement that he had set up prior to the fight.


The bottom line is that you are really WAY out of your depth here and dont seem to understand some of the basic facts about this era you keep trying to discuss.