How good was Dempsey's title reign?

There are several different accounts of events from ringside, naturally.
If the film footage flat-out contradicts one man's version, it's hard to argue that he's got it right.
Obviously, there are things seen from ringside that don't get picked up on the film. And a better understanding of each fighter is apparent from ringside. BUT Whether a man is in or out of the ring, and where the other two men are standing, IS picked up on the film.
The footage I provided appears to show an exact continuation. Does it not ?

Rickard admitted edits were made, but I have no idea what the versions of the film they are talking about in that old article.
I only know of the one I showed, footage available in our time .... which shows a continuation, IMO.

I know your modus operandum is to "grab whatever evidence you can that supports your argument " and your argument is quite viscerally anti-Dempsey lately.

I've told you WHY I dismiss the footage story, because the footage appears to show an exact and accurate continuation. In other words, I'm trusting my eyes on this one.
If you want to explain how that footage isn't an exact continuation, go ahead.

 

Actually Greb was the one making the charges that he was extorted money by the New York press to write favorably about him.

 

Are you going to tell me you see no edit during Dempsey's first KD of Firpo and no edit when he goes out of the ring and comes back in?

 

He paid them ?

 

There's an edit, of course. The film cuts from the close view to the long view.
But when the film cuts from the close view to the long view Firpo and the referee are in exactly the same freezed motion pose, the CUT is accurate. Nothing is missing.
Have a look and tell me that's not so.

 

You cannot be certain that nothing is missing, especially considering you cant see what is going on outside of the ring which is exactly what is in question.

You also completely ignore the foul blow KD.

And Greb denied paying the newspapermen.

 

Ok, my misunderstanding. I was talking about how long Dempsey was outside the ring. As far as I know, Dempsey was pushed half the way back into the ring by the people he had landed on. I think everyone assumes that.

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No I don't. Which KD is that precisely ?
The Firpo fight was controversial, as I said. Dempsey fouled Firpo several times, I believe.

Well, some of the reporting on it is confused then. Because some articles seemed to think Greb had paid up and then complained. I'm sure if that story centred around Dempsey, you'd be less quick to highlight the denial and protest of innocence.
What is likely, IMO, is that newspaper men were paid off from time to time, by all interested parties in the boxing game.

 

Probably a dumb move on Harry's part.

 

Anyone notice at the beginning of the film, Dempsey rushes Firpo and falls to his knees? Where the commentator is saying Dempsey wants to make it short and starts swinging, they are right by the ropes, Dempsey falls and it cuts to them in a clinch, right at the beginning of the first round. I always thought that was where Jack's bell was rung, he said he fought in a fog.

 

It was a knockdown, IMO. That's 3 times Dempsey was down in round 1, by my count.

(Obviously, Rickard probably cut out the other 19 times Dempsey was KD'd and KO'd and sent to hospital and ressucitated in the 1st round, so 3 is all we are left with. )

 

You might find this link interesting :

[url]http://orphanfilmsymposium.blogspot.com/2008/05/pathex-95-mm-fight-picture.html[/url]

It has a clip of Tunney and Corbett sparring, and at 1:40 on the footage it shows them re-enacting that first part of Dempsey v Firpo.

 

I doubt it affected him at all. It might taint his rating in retrospective discussions here though, on the retroactive rating, the DRAW rather than the DQ. I think janitor has argued so. Boilermaker maybe.

I don't think he was lying.
I just don't know what the footage of the out-the-ring KD he was talking about looked like. I only know the one I have seen.

 

Who wrote it ?

I know Gavin Evans, no great historian IMO, wrote some "mainstream" articles and a book on the heavyweight champions, and takes swings at Dempsey - and he has mentioned the Greb fight before.

You do understand that some of those writers (the better ones) either post here sometimes, or just view what we do and steal all our stuff ?