How good was earnie shavers?

Not sure I take some of these fighters words face vaule.

Holmes was knockout by Tyson, were Shavers only got a kd. Stop or not Holmes was not getting up vs Tyson.

Lyle was also ko by Foreman in a sea saw battle, Lyle also ko Shavers.

Holmes and Lyle were able to take Shaver's punchings, but failed to take the best what Tyson and Foreman had.

 

The difference between Tyson and Shavers was that Tyson fought a near 40 year old Holmes and was a much better finisher than Shavers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM6qQ50SpPw
2:18

Lyle was pretty much out but saved by the bell in the 2nd round.

 

Frazier was probably the hardest hitters in boxing, but he had nothing else to offer. He was pretty much garbage. Jerry Quarry took him out in the 1st round of their fight.

 

Frazier? Err...don't you mean Earnie Shavers?

 

I saw the fight. At the time. I went to a bunch of Shavers fights. Smith was a guy barely on the radar screen and was hardly perceived to be a can't miss type prospect or anything. He was a regional fighter and he was making a huge step up in class. Stan Ward was a bigger name at the time and considered to be the better prospect.

Just how many announcers out there really go ahead and say a bout is a mismatch anyway? And stand behind those opinoins? They build up both guys and try to give the impression it's a competitive bout. it's called hyperbole. Guys like Smith/Shavers or "terrific" Pedro Agusto/Foreman does not necessarily mean the overall opinion of these guys matches what the announcers are saying..

 

Hardest right hand in boxing history,probably. That was about it. His skills were no more than rudimentary. In spite of that,he would probably win a belt if he were active in the current era.

 

Yes, Shavers could have become a titleholder during some of the weaker periods in the division's history, but with only a couple successful title defenses at most. (This is assuming he doesn't get the "Bum of the Month Club" windfall Louis enjoyed.) The fact remains that he did starch a pair of title claimants within a single round, ending their time as highly viable contenders.

A real case can be made that Earnie should have been the undisputed transitional champion between Ali and Holmes. Although Shavers was just three years younger than Ali, the version of Earnie who challenged him for the title was the best prepared edition to step foot in the ring. He jabbed his way to a ten round decision win over Henry Clark in their first meeting the year before, and Clark was a tough and talented, if defensively limited boxer. (This first match with Clark would make for interesting viewing, as Earnie had the reach to make good use of a jab. Along with underestimated handspeed, he has extremely long arms for a man of his height.)

By the end of the 1976, he also extended himself mightily over ten rounds with Tiger Williams, so this endurance challenged contender had actually built up a semblance of stamina through extended competition.

If Frank Luca had availed himself of access to the same televised scoring Dundee took advantage of, maybe Shavers would have taken the title. (As it was, just about everybody who saw it that I talked to the following morning thought Earnie deserved the decision.)

Had Shavers dethroned Ali, Norton might have been his first challenger. This probably would have been Earnie's only successful title defense, but he would have obtained tremendous historical mileage out of it. Holmes would have dethroned him in the championship rounds, but the popular Shavers may have gotten more than one additional shot to regain it.

Should Norton have dethroned Ali in Yankee Stadium, Shavers could have been his first defense. End of Kenny's one and only title reign.

Close examination of Earnie's record reveals that only a peak conditioned Larry Holmes was able to completely dominate him between 1973 (Quarry) and 1980 (Cobb). Only Cobb was able to stop him without having to get off the deck.

Norton is widely derided today, but with Foreman out of the picture he was considered the apex contender in the division, and very few believed that Shavers would prevail in their matchup, let alone with a single round wipeout. It's forgotten what a stunning upset that was. Norton was the biggest trophy to be had at the time.

Beyond Norton, a second marketable title defense could have been a third battle with Jimmy Young. Earnie had a rough time in their second fight after dropping him, but that was in late 1974. In December 1976, he quickly built up an insurmountable lead over Williams by relentlessly hammering his right to the body, and may have reproduced this strategy with Jimmy.

Ellis is an underrated win, as nobody else ever blew him out like that, let alone for the count.

Schmeling might have tried starting out the same cautious way against Shavers that Norton did, letting Earnie unload first (as Max indeed let Louis do in their rematch). That could have well proved fatal. Patterson and Ingo would have been in dangerous territory with Shavers, and need to be very, very smart in dealing with him. Charles, Walcott, Braddock and Lewis all lost the heavyweight championship to a single shot. Earnie could certainly deliver it. (Among those four, I don't think Lennox would have let him get anywhere near close enough to unload a haymaker. The other three didn't have the height or reach to afford them this option.)

 

Even Howard Cosell's harshest critics fully credited him for freely and candidly going against his bosses when a stinker took place. In fact, he sometimes went overboard in this respect, but usually, "Told it like it is," as he famously did before Hagler/Lee. (Doesn't mean he wasn't an arrogant and ignorant jerk, just that he wasn't a complete kiss-ass.)

 

Yep, the announcers of the Shavers--Smith bout talked up Smith quite a bit. Why, i'll never know, but Quarry would talk up guys. I'd seen the guy in there a little while before that bout in a real dreary affair with Boudroux. Now there's 2 names that you don't hear ever mentioned in the scheme of things.

 

Watch the fight.
Shavers did ****all.
Definately not championship material.

 

No, he didn't win against Ali. Most people saw him win 6 rounds at the most, which is pretty good in a 15 round bout. It may have looked as if he won because he had such a good finish in rounds 13-14 when he hit Ali pretty hard with power punches and then Ali finished the fight by hurting Shavers the same way in the last 45 seconds of the 15th. So no, he was not champion in his own era. He came close but no cigar, his fight against Holmes was probably better though, I mean he came close to knocking out Holmes for the championship. Two great performances although Ali was 35 by time he fought him. He almost knocked out a prime Holmes so the almost is certainly there, champion in another era? Of course he would be champion!

 

Of course he could have won a title. The question wasn't about how many defenses he'd have, the question was could he win a title. Absolutely.

Personally, I think he beat Ali. Muhammed threw his flashy jabs and flurries, Earnie's guard was high and he blocked most of those punches. Ali almost got him in the 15th, but really overall it was Ali who looked awful in that fight. In my opinion, Earnie won the title in his own era and got robbed of a legacy in the process. We wouldn't be having this discussion if there was a W15 Ali on his record. I know all the Ali-worshippers will have none of this....Ali can miss six punches in a row and the world gasps in awe of his greatness. Then Shavers probably would've taken out Norton after that. And he'd have killed Leon Spinks, maybe fought Young again. Eventually Larry Holmes would've gotten to him, though.

And going back to the Lyle fight, the knockdown of Lyle was so dramatic that nowadays the fight would've been stopped.

Yes, there were times when Earnie looked awful. After he'd get winded, all technique went out the window and he'd fight like a desparate windmill. That happened numerous times.

But yes, on the right night he could've knocked out nearly anyone. And with a touch of luck he'd be considered in an entirely different light.

 

His power vastly overrated , his chin and technique underrated .
Shavers was "stopped" by Holmes cause Holmes thumbed him.
Some say Shavers was robbed of the decision against Ali.
Shavers will always be remembered as Jimmy Young's daddy.
He also stopped Ellis and Norton , and almost stopped Lyle , but Lyle , saved by the bell , eventually stopped him instead .

 

Shavers had the big punch and brought his A-game to his title shots.
He had too many weaknesses and not enough quality/consistency to be a long standing champ with defenses but he could have won the title if the matchmaking and timing had been different.

 

Think of it from another angle. How many of the other failed HW Title challengers during his years of contention would have beaten him? (Let's close this window of opportunity at 1982.) Stander, Lyle, JQ, Cobb and Tillis actually did defeat him, although Lyle and Tillis were nearly knocked out in the process. Young managed to draw with Earnie in their rematch, but had to climb off the floor to do it. Bugner would most assuredly be thought of as a foolproof candidate to beat Shavers, except for what actually happened when they did square off in 1982. At no time does Norton prevail against Earnie, or even get out of the opening two rounds, as slow a starter as Kenny was.

Cooney? Jimmy Young absorbed his hooks to the body as if they were nothing. Shavers decked Jimmy multiple times. Holmes needed one right hand to drop Gerry in round two. Cooney wouldn't get up from Earnie's right.

Leon Spinks might be a real dark horse here. Stopping the huge and deadly Mercado the way he did suggests he might have been capable of a massive surprise against Shavers if he was on top of his game, and he'd go into a match with the much older Shavers knowing he might be killed if he wasn't very alert and focused. Mercado should have annihilated Leon, but instead got eliminated from title shot contention himself.

Another dark horse would have been Big John Tate, who was pretty good against the lethal Knoetze, Coetzee and Mercado when he had fair warning. I think he'd studiously tackle Earnie with due caution, and similarly prevail.

Shavers-Young III might have been a lot more interesting than is commonly supposed by those expecting that Jimmy would completely take him to school after their 1974 draw. In December 1976, Earnie built up an early insurmountable lead on Tiger Williams by repeatedly hurling right hands into the left side of the big man's body, and Norton controversially shaded Young in 1978 with a dedicated targeting of the body. Within his limitations, Shavers was a fairly smart operator. Young-Shavers III might be Young-Lyle I & II, and Holmes-Shavers I, a one sided boxing lesson by Jimmy, or something a good deal more compelling, as Earnie already knew he could inflict damage on Young.

Was it possible for him to be champion in another era? He did beat title claimants Ellis and Norton in less than a round each, but it can be argued that both had their tanks empty by then. Given a more characteristically aggressive attack, he might have decisioned Ali, or expended himself in the process and been stopped by fatigue. I just can't see Norton ever surviving him though, and in fact, does Ali-Norton III even take place if Ken has to rematch a still active Foreman to get there?

Really, a case might be made that Norton was always more vulnerable than Earnie, but profited more by deft matchmaking. (Could Ken have ever survived fearsome young slugger Jeff Sims, who Shavers came off the floor to knock out?)

I like the way Earnie took on all styles and comers, and was able to produce quality wins against each of these types, in a way Norton was never able to against a huge puncher.