When you study his career you realize he fought and defeated great fighters like Dick Tiger and Luis Rodriguez. He lost some razor thin decisions to Paret, Rodriguez, Benvenuti. He gave Monzon the two toughest fights of his title reign and was pretty much robbed in their rematch even as an old man .. Griffith had blazing speed, terrific stamina, under rated power, a terrific chin and a ton of heart .. he has to be somewhere in the welterweight top ten .. thoughts ?
Must be in the top six or so in a a great division, the welterweights. Never ducked anyone in a quality era, a globetrotter, fighting in opponents backyards, well rounded skills, longevity, undisputed champion in two divisions as well as a version at light middle. His level of activity make Garcia, Thurman, Porter look as though they are part timers. Even when well past his best, and much smaller, gave Monzon hell in a disputed points "loss", a big middleweight, some consider the best ever.
Monzon beat Griffith handily in that first fight...displaying that unnaturally cold patience of his along the way and finally chopped him down in the 14th,...but the rematch was painfully close...Griffith perhaps coming the closest to actually beating Monzon. Carlos, to be sure, wasn't at his best...having been shot in the shoulder/arm by his wife in a domestic dispute. The champ was also having a problem with arthritis in his hands. Monzon didn't regain his form until February 1974 when he obliterated the great Mantequilla Napoles.
Wanna know how good Emile Griffith was? Well forget about the Paret fights...this tells the tale of how good he was... This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected Griffith-Tiger 1 may tax your patience if you arent used to 15 rounders, but this one fight is to this day an underrated and masterful accomplishment for Griffith. Rising from 147 to 150, Griffith was outweighed by 10 lbs by the powerful Tiger, who had, in the past November of '65, regained his precious middleweight title from Joey Giardello, and had fully never intended to lose that title again....but he was both outslicked, outstrengthed at times, and decked for the first time in his career by the welter champ Griffith. This is back before fighters without courage took refuge in "catchweights" and Griffith was making the jump from welter to middle without a junior title in between. Yes, Emile Griffith was good...very, very good IMO.
Archer wins were questionable. Crushed by Carter. Benvenuti and Monzon were better. Had many good wins.
First off, a hello and shout out to my on-line bud Red Cobra. Hey Red! Sorry for not staying in touch; lost my best bud a couple of months ago (big boxing buddy as well since our teens). I'll just throw out a few comments from what I've read. Emile MAY be my 2nd fav fighter after Patterson (funny how you stick to your heroes from your formative years). He was never the same after Paret, at least in finishing power; his KO% dropped considerably after that. He threw his 'game plan' out the window against the (guilty as h e l l) Carter (my personal opinion) after Rubin called him a f a g g o t at the weigh in. The 'Hurricane' movie was a fabricated joke!! The first Monzon fight was actually kind of funny at the end. Carlos was pounding him and Emile was crouching down almost to the floor when they stopped it. A good call tho. Another good bud (who loved King Carlos) and I were shocked in the rematch when the old man pulled out all his tricks. Carlos once said Emile was the toughest opponent he'd ever met because he made him do things he didn't want to do. Lastly, Griffith will hold a record that, with 12 round Championship fights now, will never be broken. Most rounds fought by a fighter in Title fights...something like 380 or so. A true ATG and yet another childhood hero along with Floyd!!
Welterweight - Loses to Leonard, Napoles, Hearns, Robinson, Whitaker Edges Mayweather, Duran, everyone else.
Very sensible assessment....but I bet he wins some rematches against some of those who beat him. Griffith was great at winning rematches.
My apologies for not reading the opening post more thoroughly...you emphasize Griffith at welterweight and I obviously stressed middleweight in my post.
Ive read Griffith was leading after eleven rounds in the first fight and was even till he got thumbed and hurt in the 13th. I've heard nowhere that the first fight was anything less than very competitive but a great ultimate win by Monzon. All I've read about the second was that the 35 year old Griffith got a bum decision .. that being said I would like to know more about Monzon's injury going into the rematch w Griffith and how much it impacted this performance.
Hi jowcol....and what's there not to like about this post, I ask you. EG is in my top 5 favorite boxers of all time. I get sick as hell when the only time Griffith is mentioned it's about the 3rd Paret bout and the homosexual thing. Enough with all that...EG should be recognized for being one of the truly great fighters of all time...yes, he gave my man King Carlos his toughest bout...that rematch...and he was a great welter, but where he captured my eternal admiration was when he scaled the middleweight mountain and beat the great D. Tiger...and funny, though he was a fast, strong, hard hitting, aggressive welterweight...I think he became greater by adopting that style that seemed to bore the tears out of everyone else....that ultimate mechanic style of his when he became a middleweight. The reliance on winning on points...using that educated right hand counter to augment his great strength and adaptability in dealing with so many different styles. I remember watching him fight on tv...vs Joey Archer, Benvenuti, the rematch with Tiger...and hearing those boos from the crowd...one guy yelling at him in that fight..."Griffith you stink"...the ultimate compliment in a way from an uneducated fan who can't understand what he's seeing. I think it was George Foreman who said (paraphrased) "boxing at it's best is like good jazz,...when you don't really understand it"...and that was Griffith to so many boxing fans...boring but effective...to me he was just great...period. And @jowcol, sorry about losing your bud...my condolences about that!
[QUOTE="he grant, post: 18509145, member: 30974"]Ive read Griffith was leading after eleven rounds in the first fight and was even till he got thumbed and hurt in the 13th. I've heard nowhere that the first fight was anything less than very competitive but a great ultimate win by Monzon. All I've read about the second was that the 35 year old Griffith got a bum decision .. that being said I would like to know more about Monzon's injury going into the rematch w Griffith and how much it impacted this performance.[/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE] Nah, I watched that 1st fight intently with a few others and Monzon was in control all the way...gradually wearing Griffith down...and taking a long time to do it...until the 14th.