How good was Foreman`s performance v Cooney?

Ruiz wouldn’t last the distance against Foreman. Ruiz hasn’t faced an animal like George. AJ was a good puncher but he’s no Foreman. Different styles and power. Just because Ruiz was never stopped doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be.

 

Better than an undefeated Joe Frazier? A Norton who arguably beat Ali twice?

You lost me on that one. Joshua ain't even a Norton, at least yet. Let alone Joe Frazier (come on, dude).

 

I do have opposite opinions: Ali in 70 ies was a bit worse than Frazier, Foreman and Norton.
For me he is not the greatest at all, he for me is 1-2 vs Frazier and 1-2 vs Norton and they did not had gave rematch to Foreman cos they knew what might happen there.
He also had called Holmes as his sparring partner etc alike cos he was just cocky prize fighter and nothing more impressive than Foreman, Frazier or Patterson or Liston or Holmes.

Only King and his hype had made him as great figure.

 

Joshua would be favored over Frazier, Norton, Lyle, and Moorer. Therefore, beating him is a better win.

This is not a resume contest. And no, a cruiserweight Frazier wouldn’t be favored over him regardless of how good he was pfp.

 

Favored o

Favored over an undefeated Frazier...sorry, I just have to agree to disagree here. Joshua never beat anyone in the same galaxy as even an FOTC Ali. But hey, all respect, to each his own.

Lyle might have stopped AJ.

 

He did pretty poorly against Foreman.

 

Joshua is not Foreman.

 

He's bigger, better schooled, has more title defenses, knows how to avenge a loss, and is comfortable completing 12 round fights.

 

Nah Aj would probably spark Norton to be honest.

 

I think a lot of people in the classic forum do no realize that size matters to an extent. Anthony Joshua would look like a titan compared to even the biggest heavyweights the 70s and he isn't slow like one either. He is incredibly muscular and overpowered 6'6½, 255lb Breazeale on the ropes, slapped around and absolutely manhandled 6'4, 239lb Pulev with ease and is very quick for a 6'6, 240 pound man. If he beats Tyson Fury then has a few more title defenses against decent opposition imo he's on his way to becoming an ATG. Hell a lot of you people consider Holyfield to be one so if Aj cleans up the division why not him ?

I would NOT favor Joshua over prime Ali and prime Foreman and no way would RUIZ beat Foreman lol, Foreman would take care of him by round 6, Foreman is a terrible match up for him. But one must take into account that most of the heavyweights then were 200-215 on fight night and thats pretty close to modern day Cruiserweight. there are a lot of fit big men nowadays. Not all of them are fat and if that fat isn't going to be a significant detriment then it doesn't matter all that much anyways. Ruiz is obese but has quick hands and a decent gas tank so all the fat does is add mass to his punches and slow his feet down. Ruiz at 250-268 pounds would be a hell of a lot harder to manhandle than 214 pound Frazier but Foreman still beats him because he'd still land on Ruiz obviously. Heavyweights nowadays on average probably hit quite a bit harder because on average they're a lot bigger. Although there are outliers of course. Bert Cooper was said to hit harder than Lennox Lewis by Oliver Mccall himself. Frazier likely hits harder than Fury and Foreman definitely hits harder than Aj

 

AJ in the 70s does not exist as is. Without steroids and other PEDs AJ probably weight 200-220 range like other 6”5 -6”6 men. Who knows if he’s a contender even without his added weight (was a skinny guy when younger). But George is a rare animal. He and Larry were two guys who fought in both eras. The pre steroid era and after. They both were significantly different fighters weight wise. Despite being old men they were able to remain at the top of the division despite originally being so much smaller. Men are a product of their times. Does Ali go into HW fights at 215? Hell no. He sweats down to cruiser OR he comes in weighing 230-240.

 

If Joshua does the bolded i don't think anyone would overly oppose that he would be on his way to becoming an ATG. If however the more likely happens and Fury prevails well he himself would be on his way. If Fury wins that and has 3 or 4 more good quality fights e.g. guys like Wilder if he rises back up a bit (tho after the last brutal beatdown and a poor decision in the first fight Wilder certainly isn't required), Ruiz if he shows form and another highly rated contender he'd go ATG for sure. He's ahead of Joshua in the ATG stakes at present for sure but joshua has a solid list of top 10 opponents behind him.

Plenty of sensible stuff in there. Not much to refute that's for sure.

 

I just re-watched this and George looked extremely good. He's such a force in there. He was walking Cooney down all fight. His jab was on song and his hands are just so ridiculously heavy. So much mass in those arms and shoulders. He was as quick as at any time 2nd career and did a reasonable job of evading punches while also wearing some hard hits to both head and body with aplomb. He's like a tank.

 

Maybe. I mean as far as overall career wins and performances. When did Joshua go 12 rounds with even a two years past it Ali? Or 15 rounds with an amazing incarnation of Larry Holmes?

But Joshua isn't and might never be a George Foreman. George is top 10 ATG, Joshua doesn't crack the 25 yet. Unless he knocks the crap out of Fury.

 

Ok sure but thats not what hypothetical matches are about. For example when we're doing one of them we'd use modern day Anthony Joshua vs prime Larry Holmes. We hypothetically put them in a ring that would go 12-15 rounds, your choice.

Btw I'd favor Holmes, we saw how Erislandy Savon outboxed Aj comfortably. Savon was 6'4 and no more than 225lb when he schooled Aj in the Olympics and Savons boxing isn't as complex as Holmes