How Good was Gunboat Smith?

Ask McVey...he was there.

 

Nick came from his shoes, which were so big that they were described as "gunboats".

IIRC, that is.

 

As you say he was a good puncher,he had a purple patch of about 18 months beating Langford on a controversial decision some say Langford was," under wraps," some that he was too lackadaisical,some that he was robbed.Whatever, Langford banged him out in the return and that was the start of a precipitous decline for the GunBoat his wins over Willard and Moran flatter him a bit,neither was the finished article when he beat them.

 

Smith was probably the 1st or 2nd best of the " white hope " boxers from 1912-1915.

Consider the following credentials and ask yourself did he deserve a title match vs. Jack Johnson.

1909. TKO's Jack Johnson in a 4 round exhibition match. Johnson down in the 4th, his manager halts the action.

From 1912-1915 Smith was a top contender beating the following fighters:

Frank Moran - Selected for a title shot with Jack Johnson and based on the surviving footage looked about even with the champion.

Jess Willard - Ko'd Jack Johnson for the title in 1915. Smith beat Willard giving up a lot of weight in the process.

Sam Langford - While there is a dispute as to who won this 12 round match, there is no dispute that Smith belonged in the ring, and Sam at the time was likely the #1 or #2 contender. Johnson once signed to meet Langford as champion but quickly backed out of it.

Fireman Flynn - The same guy that Johnson won via DQ in a title match, Smith TKO'd Flynn.

Tony Ross - Not very good, but went the distance with Jack Johnson in a title match. Smith TKO'd him.

^^^^ So, Gun Boat Smith defeated four men that Johnson gave title matches to, and had better results! He also has a win over a prime Langford, whom Johnson ducked for years as champion.

Why was Smith never selected for a title match? " And he never forgot it " Quoted from the book In this Corner by Gunboat Smith referring to the punch that had Johnson seeing stars.

 

The trouble with the above is that Smith lost to Carpentier, Dillon, Geyer, Bell, Coffey, Levinsky and Weinert during his "Golden" period. However, he was a decent contender around 1912-13 who could have got a shot around that time.

 

Why is this trouble? Didn't all of Jack Johnson's title opponents lose their share too?

I agree from 1912-1913, Smith should have got a shot. Over Flynn and Moran for sure.

PS: What filmed fights are out there for Smith?

 

This should be good!

 

It is about Smith. So please stop with ad nausea whining and let's focus on the man shall we?

I think he was a good fighter who never got a lineal title shot and documented the reasons as to why. You can either agree or disagree. Smith certainly beat name fighters, didn't he?

After winning the " White heavyweight championship " over a decent Pelky, Smith lost the title on his next match to Carpentier.

I'll let wiser minds comment on his fight with Carpentier, but I hear Smith lost that one on an iffy type of foul. More detail here would be nice.

 

Mcgrain,

If I can't talk about boxing with you whining about an agenda, the problem is yours.

Let's bury it, do you think Smith deserved a linear title shot or not? Its a legitimate question and one that is seldom asked.

Now do you have anything else to add to this thread or is your intention simply to spoil Brutal Forman's questions for starting it?

 

Moran certainly did not deserve a shot but an argument can be made for Flynn.