How Good was Gunboat Smith?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BrutalForeman, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    A narrow argument, as he lost to GunBoat Smith via stoppage. Flynn was Ko'd 10 times before facing Johnson again, and Johnson trashed him in the first fight.
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I'll agree with you. The problem is yours. So far have added nothing in this thread about Smith.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Let's add something then.

    Smith was regarded as the best of the white hopes by around 1912, that's probably fair. The problem was Jack Gayer.

    He was in an atrocious fight with Jack Geyer in early 1912 which may be the fight after which he was named the best of the whites. UP:

    "As contenders for the heavyweight crown now worn by Jack Johnson, "Gunboat" Smith and "DenverJack" Geyer won the go. This is the opinion today of 6,000 fight fans who witnessed the two "hopes" hugging each other for ten rounds at Dreamland Rink. Gunboat did what little real work was done and Referee McCullough awarded him the decision, principally because Geyer was so bad that there was no chance to call it a draw. Both fighters were sadly lacking in class."

    This was Gunboat's first rise. The problem is that Geyer was reported as having won this fight by some sources. Either way, the fight was so bad, that a general exodus of fans seems to have taken place during the "action."

    The two had met in 2011 - the result recorded there was a KO win for Geyer. Geyer was no world-beater, but was arguably better positioned for a title shot than Smith when 1912 dawned - and depending on how you feel about his third meeting with Geyer, this might have been the case deep into the year (it's recorded as a win for Geyer by Boxrec).

    He did have a good year, but it's important to understand where he was coming from. At best, he'd been in an absolute stinker of a fight with a fighter who had previously KO'd him and got the nod. At worst, he lost the third of three fights with Geyer and was nowhere.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Also in 1912 he was bested by "Porky" Dan Flynn.

    Boxrec also records a draw with the 169lb Sullivan. Be worth a look this one I reckon.

    So 1913 seems a more reasonable year.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    TKO'd in a sparring session,kudos to him for getting that in!
     
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  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Flynn got his title shot because Johnson was guaranteed $30,000 to defend against him, he actually cleared $31,500.
    Flynn hadn't lost in his last 11 fights and had scored ko's in 9 of them among those he had beaten were;
    Kaufman
    Morris
    Battling Johnson x3
    Bill Squires
    Langford
    After losing to Johnson the first time, Flynn was stopped 3 times before he met Johnson again, twice by Langford and once by Kaufman.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I do not personally class Smith as a white hope, because he was not a product of the white hope campaign.

    He was a fighter of the period who just happened to be white.

    He was pretty darn good.

    He beat Sam Langford, at a point where Langford was an absolute standout, among the contenders.

    He also made a pretty clean sweep of the white hopes, including a young Jess Willard, before he lost to Carpintier.

    In the two year period before that, he beat 21 opponents including:

    McMahon
    Moran
    Wells
    Rodel
    Willard
    Flynn
    Morris
    Ross
    Langford
    Pelkey

    In the end he failed to seize the moment.

    He was waiting for Jack Johnson to get old, and Jess Willard took the opportunity when he was given it.
     
  8. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    I'd pick him to brutally take out AJ
     
  9. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Gunboat Smith stops both K2 brothers and AJ 10/10. FACTS!!!!!​
     
  10. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Flynn-Smith fight is irrelevant to this discussion, it happened after the Johnson title fight with Flynn. Flynn had the good run mentioned above plus a win over Langford. Smith had a similar run in 1913/14 until Carp beat him and then Battling Kevinsky boxed his ears off in October 1914. To answer the original question Smith was a big puncher, average boxer, slow but for about a year or so was probably in the top 5 in the world.
     
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  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He was billed as the White Heavyweight Champion

    Smith fought Arthur Pelkey for the White Heavyweight Championship ,won it and lost it to Georges Carpentier,I can't see how he wasn't a "White Hope"?
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Geyer was a sparring partner for both Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey,I don't know if he ever tko'd either of them in sparring.
    He was also Tom Mix's bodyguard.
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    My definition of a "white hope", would be a fighter who was a product of the white hope campaign.

    So Carl Morris would be classes as a white hope, but not Fireman Flynn.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Well I've read 4 books on the era,and in all of them Smith figures prominently as a White Hope. He was referred to in contemporary newspapers as such,took part in a white heavyweight contest billed as for the White heavyweight Championship ,and was billed as the White Heavyweight Champion .I don't know what more needs to be said for him to qualify as a White Hope! The White Hope era is defined as beginning in1908 and ending in1915,thus both Smith and Flynn are accepted universally as White Hopes.
    Using your stricter definition,neither of them ,nor Al Kaufman,Tony Ross, or Sandy Ferguson ,since they began boxing before 1908 would qualify.