How good was Holmes in 1985 - 1986, and what would this version do today?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, Jan 14, 2009.


  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I think we can all pretty much agree that Larry was well past his expiration date by 1985. He fought three times that year, beating David Bey, barely squeaking by Carl Williams, and losing to Michael Spinks. He was 35-36 years old in 85', and showing up for fights weighing on average 222 Lbs or thereabouts. A lot of experts were saying ( and still are ), that Holmes was basically padding his record by that point, while some of the younger attractions were subtley taking over the division.


    Upon losing to Spinks in September of 1985, it seemed to prove as a wake up call for the Easton Assasin. He came back later that spring a more motivated man, and attacked the Jinx with a revitalized energy that hadn't been seen since he fought Gerry Cooney ( though that version was still long gone ). Roughly 80% of the people who saw that fight gave the match to Holmes, but was ruled a loss nonetheless.

    Anyway, How good was Holmes in 1985 -1986 and what do you think that particular rendering of Larry could have done anytime between 2003 -2009? I don't know if a past prime Holmes of the mid 80's would have beaten the klit brothers, but I think it feasable that the fully motivated Holmes of the Spinks rematch could have taken Sam Peter, Nikolay Valuev, Alex Povetkin, Corrie Sanders, Chris Byrd, John Ruiz, Oleg Maskaev, Hasim Rahman, Ruslan Chagaev, and Sultan Ibragimov. Basically, I think he could have cleaned out the division save maybe two or three fighters, depending of course on how he showed up. If he started showing up for fights in the same sluggish fashion that he was in for say the Carl Williams fight, then I think some of the above mentioned names might have upset him in a few close decisions.
     
    mr. magoo, Jan 14, 2009
    mr. magoo, Jan 14, 2009
    #1
  2. dnr0720

    dnr0720 Member Full Member

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    What was the question?. I can't take my eyes off your avatar.

    In all seriousness I agree a 100% with the above statements. Larry probably still had enough in the tank to take care of the list of fighters mentioned. I think he may have even had a chance vs Wladimir but don't think he could have gotten passed Vitaly
     
    dnr0720, Jan 14, 2009
    dnr0720, Jan 14, 2009
    #2
  3. godking

    godking Active Member Full Member

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    85-86 Holmes beats everyone today except the klitchko brothers. Allthough past his prime he was still leagues better then most of the top contenders today
     
    godking, Jan 14, 2009
    godking, Jan 14, 2009
    #3
  4. Charles White

    Charles White Chucker Full Member

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    At that point of his career, I am still convinced that he could even take the Klitchskos. Imho, nobody of today beats the Holmes of yesterday. Even if the early 90's version of Holmes was around today, I still think he becomes champ, although he would have some trouble with the Klitchskos then.
     
    Charles White, Jan 14, 2009
    Charles White, Jan 14, 2009
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  5. Sakura

    Sakura Boxing Addict banned

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    last 40 years, most of the boxing masters have been very big in size compared with the opponents. Tyson exception.

    Large size difference to give the talented fighter to big advantage over other opponents
     
    Sakura, Jan 14, 2009
    Sakura, Jan 14, 2009
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  6. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    85-86 Holmes may be too cocky to beat some of today's fighters, but I take a fully motivated black cloud of 85/86 to KO Wlad and school Vitali (ala Mercer) over 15 rounds.

    Holmes fought to fighters levels sometimes when not motivated.
     
    TBooze, Jan 14, 2009
    TBooze, Jan 14, 2009
    #6
  7. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Holmes' biggest problem at that point was not just his age, but his mix of arrogance, lazyness and overconfidence. He should've lost to Williams and in fact lost to Spinks. Michael was great at 175, but at HW i don't think he's anything special.... Williams had a lot of talent, but lacked a chin, probably worse than Wlad.

    I'd pick Wlad, Vitali, Chagaev, Povetkin, Ibragimov and Gomez over that version of Holmes. That's nothing against Holmes - he had lost the edge and that's the worst thing that can happen to a fighter.
     
    ChrisPontius, Jan 14, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Jan 14, 2009
    #7
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Not a chance. Holmes was in the decline in 1985-1986. If that verison of Holmes was around today, he might be the #4th best heavyweight today.

    Holmes barely defeated Carl Williams before losing to Spinks.
     
    Mendoza, Jan 14, 2009
    Mendoza, Jan 14, 2009
    #8