How good was Jack Dempsey's win resume?

Like I said, Firpo doesn't seem only unskilled, he literally looks like someone whom gloves were given for the first time in the fight night.
He was a strong guy, period.

 

Well we know that is not the case as he ended up with a decent record. Again it was said of Firpo at that time that he has scant knowledge of the finer points of boxing BUT he had three great attributes

Strength
Power
Courage

Not many today can say they have these qualities in the hwt division.

 

His record seems padded as hell with no names with all due respect. The best wins were against guys that were similar to him in "skillset" if you can call that. The same things I said about Firpo can be said about Willard and Brennan, in my view. They also look very unpolished as boxers in their movements, and slower than ever since (now here you could say that it's hard to judge due to the quality of video).
Just telling how I see, personally..

Firpo and all those guys were tough as old boots, there is no dispute in this!
But I can't believe that bull that unfortunately gets repeated that fighters today don't have courage, heart etc. Go search what happened with Stiverne after the fight with Wilder, ****ing peaces of his ****ing muscles! And not for a moment he thought about quitting a fight that was completely done for him.

Fighters were tough back then, but they are tough today too. (except Haye haha)

 

Tough times produce tough fighters. The era that generated Jeffries, Dempsey and many others were times when if you were not tough...you could not survive. I will ask you to watch any silient film from that time... Ask yourself...do people really move that way? Answer is no. When watching fight films from that era you need a very watchful eye to understand what's going on.

 

Yes, and boxers nowadays don't come from rich backgrounds as well, let's see the example with the one I mentioned, Bermane Stiverne, is from Haiti, how soft of a life I must imagine.

I heard that before and it doesn't change my opinion. For example, you can clearly see how Sugar Ray Robinson was throwing punches and how skilled he was even when watching his prime clips with that terrible footage quality that we have from his prime days.

I personally see the era Dempsey fought as one of boxers weakly skilled (I mean the Heavyweights) that's all I pointed out.

 

Dempsey’s best five wins

Willard. Yes Willard was old and inactive. It was also an epic beat down. End
thoughts, a younger challenger beats much older and inactive champion.


Miske. A very good and under rated fighter who was ill. Quick ending for Dempsey.. End thoughts, Dempsey drew with a healthy Miske.

Carpenter – Former lower weight division fighter blown out. Solid win. Carpentier was on a nice winning streak entering this fight, and won a few big matches after the defeat. End thoughts: Bigger and stronger punchers finishes a skilled but smaller man early.

Firpo – A crude but power full slugger taken out in two rounds. Dempsey himself was floored and knocked out of the ring. End thoughts. There is some controversy that Dempsey took longer than 20 seconds to get back into the ring,. I see this a very good win, that exposed some vulnerability to Dempsey vs. big punchers.


Gibbons – Gibbons was a very good boxer. Dempsey chased him around the ring but could not finish him. End thoughts: It's hard to KO a skilled runner.

Sharkey – End thoughts: Sharkey was pasting Dempsey until Dempsey started to go low. The ending is very controversial. Its an official win, even though he was losing the fight, and ended it with a clear foul.



Balanced with his worst five losses

Fireman Flynn Ko’d Jack in one round. Terrible result and a major resume stain

Meehan – A fat mobile boxer gets the better of Dempsey in four rounds in two separate fights.

Gene Tunney. Tunney my have won 19 of 20 rounds in both fights combined. Tunney was up for a 3rd match, Dempsey was not. End thoughts: Tunney did not face a prime Dempsey, but he easily out classed and hurt him. Dempsey had some trouble with good boxer movers in Miske and Meehan. I tend to believe a prime vs. prime match would go Tunney’s way.

 

What are your thoughts on Wills' match with Firpo ?

 

Also if Firpo was so bad, why was he chosen as the title eliminator opponent for Wills?

Wouldn't they pick somebody who might have a chance of beating Wills, and thus eliminating the problem?

 

Firpo was a big draw. So was Wills.
Wills v Firpo was a huge draw.
Obviously both fighters were happy with that match.

I just really wonder what people think of the fight going the full distance.
I guess there's a school of thought that says Wills must have carried him, because Wills was still a decent fighter then, and Firpo wasn't even an imitation of a boxer according to some.

 

The three punches the preceded the Ko were not low.

 

an excellent point.

Wills had signed an open contract to fight anyone Rickard picked in an elimination, with the winner to get Dempsey.

It is impossible to believe Rickard didn't want to eliminate Wills if he could.

 

Jeffries does deserve a nod over Dempsey for fighting top black fighters on the way up. and for ultimately meeting most of the top black fighters of his era.

Had he defended against Johnson in 1904 he would be pretty much beyond criticism, but of course he didn't.

As for that fight with Griffin in 1901, it seems to have been one of those odd fights from that time which fell somewhere between an outright exhibition and a real fight. It was scheduled for four rounds. I don't think there was any way for Griffin to win the championship if he had outpointed Jeff.

On the other hand, you are right that Jeff was taking a chance just stepping into the ring with Griffin. It is hard to see how Jeff could still claim the championship if he had been knocked out.

 

EM, think about this with some thought...You say Jim Jeffries fought black fighters on the way up. True. Whilst Jack Dempsey fought just one John Lester Johnson... But say after the terrible race riots following the Jeffries / Johnson fight in Reno 1910, in which many people died in the aftermath, do you honestly think that if Jeffries retained his title, he would have defended
his title against a black HW challenger GIVEN the terrible atmosphere prevalent those days.??? It is so easy for today's armchair critics to not take
the terrible climate of those troubled days in consideration a century later...
I am sure Jeffries and his promoter would have avoided a possible repeat
of that riotous day in Reno, 1910. Common sense tells me that...

 

I agree totally with your point, Burt.

And another thing to consider is that boxing might have been outright banned by the federal government if championship level mixed fights were made.

Boxing was illegal in 26 of the 48 states in 1925 (more earlier), so I assume getting a majority of the US Senate to ban boxing was possible and even probable. The House was heavily gerrymandered to over-represent conservative, rural districts (which is why prohibition was passed with probably minority support) and might have gone along. Coolidge? Off what I've heard he might have signed a law banning boxing to avoid racial turmoil.

But there is a bottom factual line here. Jeffries did fight top black contenders on the way up. Dempsey did not. He could have. Fulton fought Langford. Miske fought Norfolk.

 

EM, Dempsey did fight a rugged black veteran JL Johnson on the way up. The thread meant why Dempsey didn't defend his TITLE
against Harry Wills after Jack was champion ? The valid FEAR of race riots following the Johnson/Jeffries fight in 1910, didn't preclude blacks and whites fighting each other quite often with no problems, but the fear of a reoccurrence of what happened in a heavyweight title match...Harry Wills was a fine distinguished
gentleman who suffered as a result of the 1910 tragic riots and deaths. Every event in life leaves a wave for good or bad...
My point is Jack Dempsey was not the ogre he is made out to be by some hateful posters only on THIS site...Shame on these noble souls...peace...