How good was James Scott?

Hard to say how he’d do with ATGs — the Jerry Martin loss makes his chin seem at least a bit suspect, so huge punchers like Bob Foster, Archie Moore and Michael Spinks would probably prevail in my mind.

But he was a vicious body puncher and a really good, physician pressure fighter.

He of course beat No. 1 contender Eddie Mustafa Muhammad (then Gregory) to plant his flag and dominated Yaqui Lopez, who was also ranked No. 1 by at least one of the organizations at that time I think. (If he wasn’t No. 1 he was surely pretty high up after a gritty losing performance vs. Matthew Saad Muhammad.)

Also had quality wins over Richie Kates, Bunny Johnson, Jerry Celestine and Jesse Burnett (this one pre-prison).

At the very least, he was the best light heavyweight apart from the champions for a good stretch at a time when it was loaded as deeply as any division in history. And maybe better than the champs.

I don’t know that he could withstand Matthew Saad Muhammad’s power, but his body attack might take enough out of MSM’s sails to forestall Matthew’s patented strong finish. Marvin Johnson’s power might possibly be too much for him, too, but I’d favor Scott. And I think he beats Victor Galindez.

 

He was considered the bogeyman of the division for a little while. Solid fighter good pressure fighter but I feel like the Jerry Martin exposed a bit of a flaw in him.

Scott liked to bully fighters with his constant pressure but against Martin it was the opposite way round, Martin was the one who bullied him and forced him back and hurt and dropped him twice.

So based on that I don't think he beats the likes of Marvin Johnson who would've bullied him with his pressure, I also don't think he would've beat Matthew Saad Muhammad at the time either.

All in all a good fighter though who had good wins over Yaqui Lopez, Eddie Mustafa Muhammad. And had his life turned out different, may of fought for the title. I still don't understand what was the point of letting him fighting professional fighters ? if they never had any intention of him fighting for the title ?

But regardless as i said he doesn't beat Marvin Johnson or Matthew Saad Muhammad at that time IMO.

 

If he’s still around (he used to post here some), the warden of Rahway at the time, Bob Hatrak, could give you a better explanation, but …

Rahway had some very progressive and unusual rehab/vocational programs. Got a lot of nationwide publicity. They had a program where they brought in youth who had already begun to accumulate criminal records and had inmates get in their faces called “Scared Straight” to try to tell them what was ahead if they didn’t change their path, what it would be like to live in prison.

They also had a pro boxing program. Just as inmates can make money making license plates in a machine shop and I’m sure lots of other things, it was designed to give them a skill they could use on the outside to make a living rather than return to crime.

As for why “they” let him fight pro if “they” weren’t going to let him fight for a title, the people running the boxing program at Rahway didn’t bar him from fighting for the title. Eventually, when it became undeniable that he deserved a title shot (knocking off No. 1 contenders), the WBA (pretty sure it was them and not the WBC) convened and decided they couldn’t force a champion to go to prison to fight him. It didn’t mean he couldn’t fight for the title, just that they weren’t going to make a champion do it — and there was also a process by which Jame was trying to get a furlough to get a day pass to Atlantic City to fight, they hoped, Matthew Saad Muhammad for the title. Then he got a murder conviction (iirc after a hung jury or something on the first trial) on top of the robbery conviction that put him behind bars and those hopes were dashed — or maybe it was bureaucracy … some higher-ups thinking it wouldn’t be a good look to let a convicted murderer out of prison for any reason to do his ‘job.’

Not to mention most fighters never gt to fight for a title — there were others pros in Rahway who boxed who were not contenders who never got close to that, but they were allowed to fight. I think Dwight Muhammad Qawi (who later went to Rahway and beat Scott) was in the boxing program when he was incarcerated there.

So just because they weren’t going to make a champ to to Rahway to defend a title didn’t mean a guy couldn’t pursue a boxing career while behind bars. And what if James’ conviction had been overturned or he had gotten paroled? Obviously there were a lot of moving parts to this, but bottom line I doubt when the program started that they thought any of the inmates would be able to lure contenders in to fight in Rahway, much less beat them and climb the rankings to the point that they may get a title shot … and if they did, there hadn’t been a ruling by the WBA or WBC way ahead of time on whether that title fight could take place in Rahway.

I imagine if NBC (which televised most of his fights) had ponied up enough money to make it worth Saad or Johnson’s while to fight him in prison, it could have taken place there. But it becomes problematic when forcing a champion (or if the prisoner wins the title, future challengers) to go to prison to fight the inmate — how would purse bids work since the promoters really had no way to make real money off live gates (they didn’t have an arena in the prison, just makeshift areas where they would set up a ring), so guys coming into the prison to fight were going to get whatever NBC was willing to put up to make the fight … no one else would really bid to do it unless it was with TV network money.

 

Good bit of knowledge there mate thanks for the write up, i know you like James Scott aswell Pat.

 

Scott was tremendous. He gets a bum rap for the Martin fight for supposedly having soft whiskers. He got caught with a giant shot in the first and went down and showed incredible powers of recovery to stay in the fight but was winning the late rounds and was outfighting Martin by the end to lose a close decision. He took Dwight Braxton's best for 10 rounds and never even blinked. That's not a guy who is chilly and fragile.

I think he outboxes and stops Marvin Johnson, would whitewash Eddie Mustafa Muhammad again and is at least 50/50 against Matthew Saad Muhammad. The only 175 pounder I don't like his chances with is Michael Spinks. I think that one ends badly for him.

 

He was a very good fighter. But, hard to say how well he does against the other champions. Braxton handled him pretty well. He has a chance against MSM, but, I would lean towards a Saad late stoppage. No way in hell he beats Spinks.

 

I will add for those (including me) not fancying his chances so much against MSM that he completely manhandled Eddie Mustafa Muhammad. Not something easily done.

And there’s been a bit of a retrofitting to say Muhammad/Gregory wasn’t motivated and didn’t come to fight (which was sometimes true of him) but if you actually watch it, he was sharp early with his boxing and counters but Scott just walked through everything and punched his lungs out.

I think he looked back because of Scott, not because he was disinterested.

 

Very good post .

 

I’ll also say he would have run Mike Rossman not only out of the ring, but out of New Jersey entirely. And Mike was a tough guy, but Scott would be relentless in pummeling him.