How good was Kid Norfolk?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Quickhands21, Oct 22, 2008.


  1. Quickhands21

    Quickhands21 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Nov 10, 2007
    What made him so feared? seems like many wanted no parts of him
     
  2. klompton

    klompton Boxing Addict banned

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    Norfolk was a tremendous fighter. I think hes gotten a bit overrated in the past few years but that shouldnt be misconstrued as me saying he wasnt that good. He was. He was really a complete package, he was strong, durable, very skilled, fast, and had a good punch. His left jab was especially accurate and he was able to box as well as fight aggressively. This is why he was avoided but several things made it easier for fighters to justify not fighting:

    1. He was black, in that era white fighters simply did not have to face black fighters. We all know that so Im not shattering anyones world here.
    2. Several times when Norfolk was really gaining momentum where he could have been in a position to demand a title shot he suffered setbacks, some of which were pretty conclusive. When he was really gaining popularity he had a fight against Gunboat Smith in Buffalo that the newspaper were split as to who won. Boxrec lists it as a win but a draw was probably a better answer. He was asked back to Buffalo in his next fight to face Gus Christie and had a really tough time with Christie getting several teeth knocked out. Once again the reports were split even though Boxrec lists this as a win for Norfolk. His performance in the Christie bout caused him to lose a couple of lucrative matches. He avenged the Gunboat Smith fight in Rochester and then went on to notch his biggest win to date (publicity wise) against Billy Miske but two months later he was knocked out cold by an ancient Sam Langford and had to start picking up the pieces. Then just as he started to gain momentum again he got a good match at Boston against Clay Turner and got the bejabbers beat out of him. He avenged that loss in a rematch only to comeback and lose the rubbermatch with Turner. He then went on a real nice tear that lasted about two years and included him winning against Bill Tate on the undercard of Dempsey-Brennan (which is the only film of Norfolk). Early the next year Norfolk lost by TKO to Lee Anderson who was a pretty good fighter but not in Norfolk's calibre. In this fight he lost the sight in one eye and was laid up for a while. His next fight was with Greb and again the newspaper reports were split despite him sporting a 17 pounds weight advantage. How do you make a case for being a match the light heavy or heavyweight champs when you cant beat a middleweight (even if he is one of the most feared middleweights on the planet). Norfolk reinjured his eye in the Greb fight and was laid up again and the next year has a win that looks good on paper against Tiger Flowers but Flowers was an unknown at the time so taken in context this didnt really further his cause. He then shortly thereafter fights Harry Wills in a ludicrous mismatch and gets easily stopped in two. That fight basically relegated Norfolk to journeyman status. He was still dangerous and still very good but that fight showed that he was never again going to be a threat at HW. He bumped around for a while on the chitlin circuit facing other black fighters who couldnt get a shot and continued winning more than losing until he got a very nice match with Battling Siki in Madison Square Garden and beat Siki from pillar to post before nearly getting knocked out in the last round. This was an excellent win for Norfolk and it really put him back in the spotlight. About six months later he got another plumb when he was signed to face an out of shape Greb who was at the height of his party days. The fight was an ugly wrestling match which didnt show either fighter to good effect. Norfolk won pretty much every round after the first but in the sixth the bell rang and Harry turned around to head back to his corner, Norfolk swung late and hit Harry who flew into a rage and attacked Norfolk setting off a riot. Greb was DQ'd but more than one observer said Norfolk should have been DQd first. Both fighters were suspended. Norfolk got his last big chance against Tommy Gibbons (who had avoided Norfolk for years) later that year and Gibbons knocked him out easily. Norfolks slide after that was very quick age, ringwear, and blindness in one eye took its toll and by 1926 he was finished. A fascinating fighter and definately very good but a tad bit short of great in my opinion based on his inconsistency.

    3. His size and weight made him hard to categorize. He fought mostly at heavyweight but was really too small for heavyweight and too big for light heavyweight.
     
  3. Quickhands21

    Quickhands21 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Nov 10, 2007
    Hey thanks for responding..good breakdown of him