How good was Larry Holmes really??

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by LightsOutJack, Mar 8, 2014.


  1. LightsOutJack

    LightsOutJack Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,636
    3
    Feb 21, 2014
    The reason I ask is I was watching the Kings of the Ring documentary, and I noticed they completely skipped over Larry Holmes title reign and went straight to Tyson...

    I always felt he was under-appreciated, but damn... 20 title defenses and he doesn't even get a mention??

    And I also remember a documentary where they ranked heavyweights, and I remember him arguing with Bert Sugar about them ranking George Foreman over him... IDK about that one

    So I gotta ask... How good was he? Who were his best opponents? How good were the fighters in his era? How does he match up with past greats and past era? etc etc
     
  2. boxing_master

    boxing_master Loyal Member banned

    32,973
    14
    Jul 21, 2013
    Foreman ranks over him
     
  3. MrMagic

    MrMagic Loyal Member Full Member

    39,534
    71
    Oct 28, 2004
    The most underrated heavyweight ever, thats how good he was.
    He would've spanked Foreman, thats why Foreman ducked him blatantly.
     
    Oddone likes this.
  4. Redman

    Redman Active Member Full Member

    1,407
    5
    Sep 16, 2013
    Stylistically all wrong for Foreman.

    In his prime he was a ATG, and even in his later years he could still hang, I watched the second Spinks fight the other day.. there's no way he lost that fight, not a fooking chance.
     
    oldcanvasback and Oddone like this.
  5. marting

    marting Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,616
    2,247
    Jul 20, 2004
    Much better than he gets credit for and no one will tell you that louder than him. His personality never endeared him to the boxing public. He completely dominated the heavies for what seemed an eternity at the time.

    I think what really hurts his standing was his career was bookended by two legends in Ali and Tyson.
     
    Maidanas Gun Tattoo and Oddone like this.
  6. MrMagic

    MrMagic Loyal Member Full Member

    39,534
    71
    Oct 28, 2004
    The judges can kiss where the sun don't shine, and since we on HBO... thats mah big black behind!

    Larry would've tore Foreman up.
     
  7. WildStyle

    WildStyle J.C. Penny's belt $2.99 banned

    8,578
    5
    Sep 24, 2011
  8. Redman

    Redman Active Member Full Member

    1,407
    5
    Sep 16, 2013
    Wish that fight would have come off, I really think Holmes wouldn't be so overlooked if the fight did take place.
     
    oldcanvasback likes this.
  9. lencoreastside

    lencoreastside Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

    20,213
    5,012
    Dec 27, 2010
    For the sake of balance it must be said that Holmes mostly fought a lot of stiffs....and of the "live" bodies he did face quite a few gave him trouble eg Snipes, Williams, old Norton, Witherspoon, Shavers etc.
    He DID look very good shooting fish in a barrel but he was just shooting fish in a barrel much of the time.
    He has no real stand-out great fight wins on his cv..you know like Foreman crushed Frazier and Norton..Ali crushed Liston and Foreman etc
    People forget this.
     
    JunlongXiFan likes this.
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,910
    47,900
    Mar 21, 2007
    Larry Holmes staged dual comebacks in 1988 and 1991, the first a result of a big money offer to come straight out of retirement and match Mike Tyson, the second a surprisingly meandering stroll through the peaks and valleys of the 1990s heavyweight scene—in fact Holmes boxed all the way into the 2000s, stopping an equally creaky Mike Weaver in 2002 in the sixth round. Larry’s decision to box on did not seem born of financial insecurity or an unquenchable ego but because of an unerring desire to dominate. You can see it for every moment Larry Holmes is in the ring, whether you are watching the young man go to war with Ken Norton or the old man chasing the twenty years younger Anthony Willis.

    The tools he brought to bear in this oldest of ambitions were formidable. Holmes argues the best jab, the best right hand and the best footwork in the history of the heavyweight division. You may have a personal preference for Sonny Liston or Joe Louis or Muhammad Ali in each of these areas respectively but it is beyond question that Holmes belongs in those debates. Add a granite chin, superb accuracy, some dig, technical accomplishment unequaled in heavyweight history and that natural proclivity for domination and you have a fully-fledged 215 lb. war machine.

    This birthed the most celebrated reign in WBC championship history— until it came to make more financial sense to adopt the IBF trinket, at which point Holmes happily changed allegiances, defending the new bauble until he was shockingly separated from it by a brilliant Michael Spinks in September of ’85. Holmes was already slipping by this point and it is arguably the case that he went through his entire prime unbeaten. The reason he is in the top 80 rather than the top 70? Well, he arguably did not.

    Holmes had a desperately close call in the match in which he lifted the title against Ken Norton in a fight I thought he lost (the judges awarded him a split decision). No rematch was forthcoming; a criticism that would be leveled against Holmes again when he was arguably beaten by a novice Tim Witherspoon in their 1983 confrontation which I scored a draw (the judges, again, handed it to Holmes on a split). He also seemed adverse to unification fights and his reign is littered with alternative heavyweight strapholders. His failure to meet a surging Greg Page instead of opting for the limited Marvis Frazier (whom he dispatched in a single round) was also a concern. Holmes, like Jack Dempsey, arguably missed out on some of the most important fights of his career and many of his defenses were soft.

    Unlike Dempsey, he was an enormously busy champion who busted up a huge raft of top-class contenders over a seven-year period that included twenty successful title fights and a stretch of 48-0. He won his first meaningful fight in 1978 and his last in 1992. Like Lennox Lewis he was more feared than loved—but, when he was in the ring at least, that suited Holmes just fine.

    http://www.boxing.com/the_100_greatest_fighters_of_all_time_part_three_80_71.html
     
  11. lencoreastside

    lencoreastside Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

    20,213
    5,012
    Dec 27, 2010
    Cant accept that.
    I followed Holmes career closely at the time and this is NOT how he was viewed at the time. This is a classic case of looking back through rose-tinted glasses.
    At the time most of Holmes opponents were viewed (quite rightly) as being either poor or very poor.
     
  12. I am Legion

    I am Legion Active Member Full Member

    542
    32
    Jan 4, 2010
    Bollocks. I was there too, the only two contenders he didn't fight and should've were Dokes and Page. You can blame Don King for that:smoke
     
  13. plank46

    plank46 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,475
    83
    Aug 23, 2013
    way overrated. never beat anyone all that good. tried to duck his way to breaking marciano's record.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    112,910
    47,900
    Mar 21, 2007
    Nonsense.

    And even if it wasn't, my answer would be what a bunch of dummies. If that whole era viewed Norton, Shavers, Weaver, Cooney, Snipes, Berbick and Witherspoon as "poor or very poor" they just didn't know boxing is all.
     
    oldcanvasback and Oddone like this.
  15. plank46

    plank46 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,475
    83
    Aug 23, 2013
    norton was shot, and holmes still needed a bad decision. shavers lost every time he stepped up. weaver was average. cooney never beat a good fighter in his prime. snipes and berbick were nothing special. witherspoon is by far the best on your list, and he still was a nothing in any other era.
     
    catchwtboxing likes this.