How good was Ray Mancini?

Well he gave one of the greatest lightweights of all time a run for his money and at one point was leading on the scorecards.
He lost a split decision to Hector Camacho in a bout I thought was a draw. Granted both had seen better days.
He beat 3 world champions-not the strongest of champions but none the less former champions.
I agree he wasn't a HOF but I disagree he was light years away from being one.

 

He wasn't the most skilled but he had a hell of a heart and would give it his all every fight

 

Talking ATG, not HOF.

Mancini and Arguello were even after 10. The fight however was a 15 rounder and Arguello was comfortably ahead at the time of the stoppage. He was also a slow starter and loved to dissect his opponent over time. Arguello had been a lightweight for about a year. At the end of the day Mancini put forth a spirited challenge but lost.

I thought Camacho beat him and it wasn't the greatest of fights for either.

At the end of the day Ray has a very good win over Ramirez and after that it gets thin. For me that doesn't reach very good, great or ATG. He was a "good" fighter.

 

And it's good to see you posting a bit Russell.

 

One thing I wish I knew. I would like to know what the Kim fight had to do with Ray and his fight with Bramble. He looked good against Chacon but how can a fighter ever be the same after what happened with Kim in 1982. I think Ray was very good but he never proved he was great with a great win against an elite. Chacon was not at Bobby's best weight.. He fought Camacho and went 12 with him and he was not that easy for Hector to hit in 1989. I think he was better than Bramble peak against peak.. Bramble had a good style for him and was strong, but I think it was more stylistic. I think Bramble was more overrated than Mancini. I do not see Mancini blown out by Rosario. I don't know why. I see Ray knocking Rosario out in the mid rounds. Actually I saw Ray's last fight against Haugen in April of 1992 in Reno.. He was a shell by that point. I saw Bramble at ringside and asked him about the fight.. He was there to support Ray and maybe get another fight if Ray beat Haugen. Mills Lane was there also, but I think he was from the Reno area.

 

I think Rosario would beat Mancini but it's certainly no forgone conclusion.

Did the Kim tragedy affect him? There are claims it did and i certainly wouldn't discount them. Such tragedies are said to have affected guys like Ezzard Charles and Emile Griffith as boxers. The so called "killer instinct" would certainly be tested.

 

I agree

 

You know I don't know about Rosario.
I could see him crushing Ray just as easily as I could see Ray surviving dome tough moments and grinding out a win.
Camacho at lightweight easily decisions Ray.

 

I am sure the Kim tragedy bothered Mancini, but I never noticed a change in the way he fought. He didn't exactly become gun shy.

As for Mancini/Bramble: Bramble had a much better defense than Mancini. He was also physically strong and had a good chin. He was faster, as well. He also had top notch stamina.

Bramble was a huge underdog as he had done little to attain the #1 WBA ranking. He had lost to Anthony Fletcher and his best win was over Kenny "Bang Bang" Bogner.

The experts were saying, "Geez, Mancini is facing another undeserving WBA top contender." Nobody picked Bramble. Nobody was saying that the Kim tragedy had weakened Mancini. The Bramble fight was almost two years after the Kim tragedy and Mancini had made several defenses, albeit against obscure contenders and a battle worn Bobby Chacon, who was moving up from 130 lbs.

In their first fight, Bramble neutralized Ray's aggression with a tight guard. He let Mancini punch away, then he countered all night long. He also switched stances (to lefty and back to righty) often throughout the fight. There was talk afterwards that Ray had "overtrained" but it was probably just a standard excuse.

Bramble also beat Tyrone Crawley, who was very good.

If Bramble was "overrated" it would have been based on two wins over Mancini, who may have himself been "overrated".

Bramble simply ran into a Rosario who was a motivated fighting machine. Rosario fought spectacularly against Bramble. Bramble was simply overwhelmed. I think Rosario could have overwhelmed a lot of quality fighters that night. When motivated, Rosario could look awesome. He did the same thing to Loreto Garza when past prime. I think he relished the challenge of being an underdog. Mancini was so hyped, I have a feeling Rosario would be very motivated for a Mancini fight. Too bad it never happened.

I doubt he'd KO Rosario. Rosario's pin straight right hand and excellent left hook could be a problem. Rosario would need to offer some movement. I agree Ray was probably more physically strong than Rosario, but Edwin was no weakling. And Rosario would have a clear advantage in punching power. I'd favor Rosario to win that encounter.