How good was Rex Layne

Dempsey was in the forefront of promoting the fights with the promoters and managers to become their Hometown referee, and they're never were disappointed with his decision. Arcel said the mob is killing boxing.

 

So by your logic Dempsey was secretly the promoter of this fight and a mobster who fixed this fight…. Except he had nothing to do with the promotion, he was brought in as a special guest referee to boost the gate, and Charles, Jake Mintz his mgr, and Arcel were “delighted” with the selection of Dempsey before the fight, to quote them, and he wasnt a mobster. Again, nice try but the fact is that Dempsey was a frequent referee, he reffed hundreds if not thousands of fights during his life. In this case, while he turned in a card with far too many even rounds it doesnt change the fact that the fight was very close and the guy who was busier and more aggresive won it by a single round. Hardly a legendary mob fix regardless of how much Charles’ team whined about it. So youve gotten every fact youve posted about this fight completely wrong. Care to keep going? Ken Mayne, the ACTUAL promoter of the fight, was well known in Utah and promoted both boxing and wrestling in the state for years. Oh, and he was far less “connected” than Charles was.

 

What are you, a little ***** trying to start an argument ? Grow a sac. I was actually reading this enjoying the information.

 

Dempsey, heretofore, refereed hundreds of wresting matches and boxing matches accompanied with two judges.

 

Continuation: He was a promoter for 20th Century Boxing Club, ran by Mike Jacobs. He was in-part closing the deal in the fight. Bringing him in to booster the gate is malarkey, he purposely came and was paid to be the House referee. He was connected promoting the Ross-Armstrong fight and the Davey Day- Sammy Angott Tiltle in Louisville, where he voted 6-5 and 4 even making Angott the Champion. He made the deal with Sammy's manager Honest Charlie Jones who paid all his expenses to be the Sole referee and Judge (shelving the twp judges) to do a hatchet job on Day. giving Angott the fight by 1 point. Day was the 8/5 favorite.

 

I asked you to continue with the ignorance and you didnt disappoint.

The 20th Century Sporting Club had ceased to exist years before the second Charles-Layne fight so Im not sure what connection you are trying to draw between a defunk promotional company 2000 miles away. Furthermore, you are conflating Dempsey taking over the promotion of the Sharkey-Stribling fight for the Madison Square Garden corporation in the wake of Tex Rickards death in 1929 with somehow being a promoter for Mike Jacobs 20th Century Sporting Club, which was founded years later. None of these threads you are drawing have any basis in fact. And dont even a tenuous connection with the timeline being discussed here.

No he wasnt. He had nothing to do with "closing the deal in the fight."

So which is it? Was he the promoter or just the house referee? And again, this entirely unhinged and fantastical argument you are making solely out of your imagination rests on the idea that a fight you havent seen was a robbery. It wasnt.

Yeah, he was sitting in the audience. That was the extent of his "promoting" the Armstrong-Ross fight.

Thats interesting because you just said in your previous post that Dempsey always reffed with two judges... But, if you care to look you can see that Dempsey actually had Angott beating Davey Day by a closer margin than the press did:

Arch Ward writing for the Chicago Tribune did not give his scorecard but noted that Angott built up a decisive lead early that Day was late in trying to close and closed the show with a rally. He noted that several outlets had Angott winning by a WIDER margin than Dempsey's one point.

W. Blaine Patton scoring for the Indianapolis Star gave Angott 8 rounds, 3 rounds to Day, and 4 even and gave Angott an extra point in the third.

The AP scored it 9 rounds to Angott and 6 for Day.

The UP scored it 8 rounds for Angott, 5 for Day, and one even.

Tommy Fitzgerald, writing for the Louisville Courier-Journal said the fight didnt appear to be as close as Dempsey scored it and had Angott by a decisive margin of 11 rounds to 2 with 2 even.

Every first hand report Ive read says the crowd thought Angott won by a wider margin than Dempsey's announced card.

Compare that with Dempsey's score of 6-5-4.

Finally, your conspiracy theory about Dempsey being in the bag for Angott is just bizarre considering during the negotiations for this fight neither Angotts people nor Day's could agree on the judges. The fight was almost scrapped until BOTH parties HAPPILY agreed to let Dempsey be the sole official. This is all well documented and you can look it up.

You are on record as saying you are Davey Day's relative and have an endless supply of baseless conspiracy theories about him so Im guessing your belief that Dempsey was a mobster and a promoter of fights he didnt promoter and a fixer of fights stems from Day getting his ass kicked by Angott.

 

• ackYour needling half witted remarks are spaced so far apart of the real truth of what you don't know. As far as your contention of all the sportswriters echoing the same line of Day losing more rounds than Dempsey giving him credit for. The sportswriters are inclined of aligning themselves with their own ilk, even when they are wrong. When Day and Angott signed the contract 4 weeks or so prior to the fight, the newspapers mentioned that Dempsey will be the REFEREE! Charlie Honest Jones manager of Angott, called in Dempsey and paid all his expenses, including his fee between $3500 to $5000 as referee. Mr. Jones (who owned a bank in Louisville) said, it would booster the gate. The Caper was two weeks prior to the match, it was announced that Dempsey will be the SOLE JUDGE. The Kentucky Boxing Commission shelved the TWO JUDGES, they were not needed. Signed, Sealed and Delivered Feat. Good old Honest Charlie Jones (sealed the deal ) fronted money to all connected, including Davey's own managers Pian & Winch. Davey said, Dempsey ain't right, and Pian and Winch told Davey he is on our side. Jack Cuddy of the New York Times on 1/10/1943 interviewed Charlie Jones on Sammy's rise to the top. "Angott could have made more money fighting Davey Day in Chicago or in some other arena that, night May 3rd 1940, Charlie said, I knew Sammy could beat Day, and he wanted to make it dramatic, he even had Jack Dempsey down from New York to referee the bout so that there could be no question of the decision". Davey said, afterwords if you want to be fighter, it would be a good think to know who your managers are betting on. John Lardner sportswriter for AP, UP, New York Times and many others papers and magazines. Wrote article (1942) on Lew Jenkins and Sammy Angott both lightweight Champions at same time. "Sammy Angott won the title from Davey Day in Louisville in 1940, under circumstances of the strictest secrecy, but the secret got out when three witnesses blabbed." by John Lardner.
• Klop, your good kid, your very good, but as long as I am around, you;ll always be second.

 

I met Angott and his wife with Davey and want to mention that Sammy was a great Champion and swell guy, we stayed for over an hour Davey and Sammy were thrilled to be with each other.

 

Oh, one more thing, show me the article that you presented as the gospel that Davey took a terrible beating. He didn't even suffer a scratch, and was fresh as a daisy after 15rds. Angott was lucky to finish erect.

 

Oh I see, so everyone who was actually there was wrong...

Again, there was never any "shelving" of judges two weeks before the fight. The fight wouldnt have been signed if both parties hadnt agreed on Dempsey which was part of the contract they signed as you can see here. This is the Louisville paper covering the actual signing of the fight and notice the last paragraph of the article. The fact you allege that Pian and Winch thought Dempsey was in the bag for them and then he voted against them and with every other ringside expert kinda explodes your bizarre conspiracy theory.

[url]https://flic.kr/p/2pfs2Dz[/url]

This article goes into more detail about Dempsey being signed and also states that the promoter Vernon Franklin paid him, not Angott's manager as you claim.

[url]https://flic.kr/p/2pfwR14[/url]

And keep in mind that NBA commissioners from both Illinois and Kentucky were a part of the contract signing and agreed to all terms including the referee and the president of the NBA was ringside at the fight without a peep of the decision being bad or the referee being crooked.

Three things: 1. You are quoting an article written three years after the events by a guy who wasnt even there. 2. It gets the facts wrong right off the bat by saying they could have made more in Chicago which isnt true. The Louisville promoters beat the Chicago bid as shown in the article above. 3. Reread what Jones said. He said he KNEW Angott could beat Day and had Dempsey referee so there would be no question of the decision. This isnt saying the fight was fixed its saying Dempsey was agreed to in order to ensure the decision was just. Hence "no question of the decision." Wouldnt there be a question of the decision if it were a bad decision??? But guess what? Nobody disagreed that Angott won.

Again, you are quoting articles written years after the fact by men who werent there. What was the secret? That Angott beat Davey Day in a clear decision that everyone agreed on???

Frankly if anything effected Day getting the decision it was probably a lot less some fantastical conspiracy theory that youve cooked up which has no basis in fact but rather the fact that Day's wife sued him for divorce three weeks before the fight alleging that he beat her numerous times:

[url]https://flic.kr/p/2pfscBL[/url]

I would imagine getting outed publicly as a serial wife beater and sued for it would be a lot more stressful than having Dempsey referee your fight...

 

I don't pretend to know the details of this,but I will say this, Klompton is no Dempsey fan however. he seems ,to me at least to be being even handed here and presenting the facts as he understands them.He and I do not like one another,but I respect his knowledge ,if not always the way he imparts it. An educational thread , for me anyway.

 

I think that for about half Dempsey's] refereeing gigs ,[nearly 400 ,] he was the sole arbiter.

 

Wrestling gigs, yes.