How good was Tokyo Douglas

Douglas on the night is way ahead of those for me. Spink's power at heavyweight was average at best and his chin very suspect. It was a real non effort and i do not doubt he froze like quite a few others.

Holmes had no sharpness, no timing, no snap, he was ordinary at that stage. The Douglas that Tyson fought was leagues above him and that can clearly be seen on film. Holmes offensive was basically non existent.

Regardless of what level one thinks Tyson was on Douglas' skills can clearly be seen. Part of Tyson showing less early was Douglas. His footwork was more precise and his offense was better as well. Tucker bounced around a bit with less intent where as Douglas' footwork was compact, precise and purposeful and matched up to his offensive efforts better. He showed Tyson more variety and was more often in a position to punch with authority than Tucker was.

Having said that Tucker had a decent first round with Tyson and landed a couple of good clean right hands.

 

Douglas actually got sloppy midway the first round against Tyson. Douglas totally left himself open and Tyson only threw a half assed inaccurate right hand. The telling part is that Tyson wasn't throwing left hooks or body punches though. He looked a lot like the guy who fought Botha.

I dont rate Douglas' power or chin better than Spinks'.

 

What looks to be an opening to us may not always be to them.

Tyson didn't attack the body much, but how much was that due to Douglas? Douglas was letting his hands go like no one had before against Tyson. Perhaps Tyson could have attacked the body ore, but how badly would he have been made to pay? No-kne made Tyson pay prior to this. Douglas was there to win and throwing punches with bad intentions.

Douglas hit harder than Spinks at heavyweight for mine, absolutely. Spinks hit Cooney flush too many times to count in a very short time and he still was on his feet. Holmes didn't react at all to flush power punches from him. Spinks came well and truly back to the pack at heavyweight.

Douglas shipped punches that Spinks didn't. Tyson hit him flush quite a few times for barely a reaction excepting the uppercut. Spinks was hurt by an aging Holmes (hardly a banger and who had lost some timing and snap) multiple times with single punches. Pretty sure i remember him being hurt by a grazing punch. I'd take Douglas again.

 

Let's put it this way. Why did Lewis keep Spinks away from younger quality heavyweights? Why fight barely active Cooney and avoid Tucker?

Spinks is an ATG. But Lewis knew he wasn't a top heavyweight. Between 1985-87, Lewis ensured Spinks avoided everyone from Witherspoon, Thomas, Tucker etc. Lewis was just saving Spinks for 1 big payday.

Spinks did not carry his power at heavyweight. Almost like Bob Foster though Spinks carried it a little better than Bob.

 

Okay,

Heres something to consider. No agenda, I'm genuinely asking this question out of curiosity.

What would the perception of Douglas be, had the rematch with Tyson came off, but he was fat and out of shape like he was against Evander and got knocked out easy and early?

Would this be seen as a case of Rahman/Lewis? With Douglas basically being seen or exposed as a fluke and not in serious head 2 head discussion, and Tyson the clearly superior fight when prepared.

 

It wouldn't be seen like Lewis - Rahman as Rahman came into the rematch in shape. It would be hazy - a bit each way.

 

With hindsight I would rate Tysons opponents like this..in order of who was really a legitimate threat on the night he fought them.

1. Douglas
2. Smith
3. Bruno
4. Tucker
5.Biggs
6. Holmes, Spinks, Tubbs, Thomas (bum of the month)

Douglas beat up that Mike Williams guy pretty bad. And Williams took witherspoon to a legitimately split decision. If you compare the Witherspoon of his performance in the Mike williams fight with the Douglas of the Williams fight...you couldn’t give Witherspoon any kind of chance against Douglas. Whereas nobody would give Spinks any kind of chance against Witherspoon.

 

Firstly, Tyson took an absolute schooling against Douglas. He soaked up a Real beating. Nobody would ever forget that. People would still be saying what a pity it was Douglas never fought in The same shape again?

which when you think about it, is kind of why Holyfeild can’t get that much credit beating that version of Douglas.

 

He fought Cooney as an underdog in order to receive an enormous paycheck, professor.

 

Troll

 

Regardless, Douglas's power was levels below Ruddock's and his legs/power were no better than Tucker's. Tubbs, Tucker, Spinks, Holmes and Biggs were all pretty good as combos. It wasn't like Wlad never fighting a Sanders before.

Had Tyson been coming in quick with midrange hooks, it would've limited Douglas' combination punching. What Tyson actually was doing was wading in with limited head movement.

Edit: I forgot about Carl Williams, another good fighter who was similar to Douglas.

 

What? Based on what! Take that back!

With hindsight, regarding what happened to them, which was related directly to how recently they had beat relevant contenders themselves, how can Holmes, Spinks, Tubbs and Thomas not be seen as the least threat to the championship during the Mike Tyson era?

what is wrong in saying Tim Witherspoon would have been seen as a bad fight for Michael Spinks...

Douglas took apart the same guy that took Witherspoon to a SPLIT Decision.

 

I don't agree that Thomas or Tubbs were bums, or that Bruno was better than them. Or that you wouldn't give Witherspoon a hope vs Douglas based of their respective fights with Williams, but I do agree with your overall point.

Good post, mate. Thanks.

 

Tokyo Douglas would have been a test for any HW in history. A Tyson rematch would have been fascinating, two possible outcomes if Douglas is properly prepared - He beats a mentally damaged Tyson or Mike wins a decision in a similar fight to the Ruddock rematch.

 

There's a very real possibility that Tyson would've taken out Douglas, and early, in a rematch. The plodding, praying for a right hand Tyson from Tokyo almost did it.