How good were the white hopes?

I dont necessarly agree with the article in its entirety but its a good read. Willard has a decent claim to be one of the top White Hopes based on his win over Johnson, Moran and probably edging out McCarthy. But the best you could say for any of them is that they might have a shot at beating Jeff Clarke-is that a fair comment?

 

I think most contemporary observers and also later historians judged McCarty to be the best of the White Hopes. The man only fought two years and was barely 21 when he died. Certainly his record, positively and negatively, does not compare to Smith's, but he had actually never been decisively defeated while knocking out Morris, Kaufman, Flynn, and Palzer, and badly defeating Moran. He was showing remarkable improvement through late 1912 and into 1913. The New York Times in January of 1913 remarked that he was now too good for Willard or any of the others who had earlier given him trouble.
Some quotes--Nat Fleischer--McCarty was "the best of the White Hopes. There is little doubt that had McCarty lived he would have won the title."
Dan Daniel--"Had Luther lived, he and not Willard would have dethroned Johnson."
DeWitt Van Court--"Unquestionably the best heavyweight prospect since John L Sullivan."
Billy McCarney--"In my judgement, the best heavyweight prospect of all time."

McCarty was much bigger than Smith, who often fought in the 170's. McCarty was 6' 4", weighed about 205, was quick on his feet with a vicious jab, had already proven his stamina, and had been in with some of the big punchers of the day such as Palzer and Moran without being floored.
Without film, it is hard to tell how much is hype, but McCarty might have had it in him to be something special if fate had been kinder. Smith, on the other hand, is just another fairly good contender, although because he lived, we end up knowing more about what he could do and what he could not do.

I would emphasize and reemphasize that McCarty was barely 21 when he died.

 

I can't believe that anyone brought solely into boxing for the purpose of defeating one guy could be anything more than simply "good".

The white hopes were probably the first hype-jobs in existance

 

Why is that ironic?

 

Gunboat defeated Willard, Moran, and Langford. He also knocked Jack Johnson down and hurt him in a sparring session. Wins over Coffey, Pelky, Ross, Flynn, and Levinksy round off his resume. At his best, I think Smith was the best White Hope. He seemd hit the wall in late 1915, but in his prime years from 1909-1914 he was very good.

Smith was likely viewed as the #1 contender in a Ring Magazine type of rating system when he defeated a prime Sam Langford.

After Smith, I say Willard was the 2nd best. The author of the article thinks Smith was the best, circa 1914 and the resumes back that up.

As for Clark, I tend to think he was better than every white hope except for Willard and Smith.

 

Good quotes. McCarty is the classic case of Potential vs Production. Before his fatal fight vs Pelky, McCarty lost 3 news decisions, drew once, and had an NC Vs Willard. How could such a man be called the best prospect of all time? I have DeWitts rankings. He doesn’t mention McCarty.

Smith’s best weight looked to be in the low to mid 180's, which is fine for the era. At 6'2" he was taller than normal for the era. But most importantly, Smith had skills, and could hit. Smith lack of size didn't prevent him from beating a much bigger Willard or Morris.

Looking back, I still think Smith was better though the quotes you have provided make me wonder. A film on McCarty and Smith would help settle the issue. I wonder if there was ever talk about matching the two?

Between Smith, Willard, and McCarty, I rank them as I listed them with my reason being based on who they beat and when / how they beat them.

 

I'd say the truth lies well in between those two very extreme points of view.

 

McCarty's production is actually very high. He had ko's of Morris, Kaufman, Flynn, Palzer, and Joe Cox. He had victories over Jim Barry and Frank Moran, all when only one month past his 21st birthday. In the history of heavyweight boxing, how many can you name who could match this? Only three names come to mind--Louis, Ali, and Tyson, perhaps.
And that is real fast company.

Don't forget, McCarty, not Smith, is the White Heavyweight champion while McCarty is alive and actually is a claimant to the World Championship, as Johnson is talking retirement.

I would point out that not only was McCarty only 21 when he died, but he was 6' 4" and described as fast and athletic. It is concievable that boxing would not see a really top level talent this big again until the era of Ali and Foreman, if not Lewis, Bowe, and the Klitschkos.

Without film, who knows for certain. but McCarty may indeed have been what McCarney describes him as--the best prospect ever.

 

Mendoza--Jack Curley was apparently negotiating for McCarty to fight Johnson at the time of the tragedy with Pelkey. Smith was really not in the picture yet.

 

McCarty went to NYC at the age of 20 and partied. He turned up his worst showings in front of the New York Papers against Stewart and Willard. Stewart was a popular NY heavy at the time, when NY felt that they really needed one,
G. Smith would go on to absolutely ruin Stewart in his very next fight.

Lute was really coming into his own starting with Kaufman. Followed by Flynn, Palzer, Flynn, Moran. His wins against them were all pretty one sided and those would be three of Johnson's title defenses right there. Keep in mind he was just twenty and he beat them all in six months.

I think he would have went far.

 

Mendoza, maybe McCarthy was losing a bit because of his in experience