How great was John L Sullivan ?

All this training and conditioning progressive stuff I don't buy into. Put sullivan in the ring with david haye and john l emerges victorious.

 

Sullivan came out of retirement to fight Corbett! That is often forgotten. He was a lot further removed from his prime than Tyson was against Danny Williams.

Also, with the colour line, it is misunderstood and only a marketing gimmick. First of all, Sullivan did defend his world title against the best coloured fighter (at least he seems to have been promoted as such) in the world, in the great Maori fighter Herbert Slade. Sullivan not only KOd him, but took him on a tour, so he wasnt too racist there.

Secondly, he was to fight the no 1 (of a later time) coloured fighter in George Godfrey). Sullivan came to the ring and dressed to fight, but the fight was stopped by the police, because prize fighting was illegal (not too much racism there).

Thirdly, Later on in life he did refuse to fight Peter Jackson. But two points about this, is that he was in retirement at the time. And, Peter Jackson did blow his best chance to force the fight, by not defeating Jim Corbett, who Sullivan did fight. It is very strange that Jackson seems to get more credit than corbett for their draw. I am not sure why, neither fighter could continue. I will have to go back and look at the round by rounds, but i think it was scored as evenly right the way through (from memory).

Fourthly, I have seen one comment from Sullivan after his retirement which was very interesting. He stated (i cant remember when but think it was around the time of Burns' reign). That any fighter who draws the colour line generally has one motive, ducking his best challengers. I think that the colour line helped Sullivan keep the title in America when he knew he was retired and no longer had it, but before that he never really used it or relied on it.

 

Yes to the degree that he fought most often with gloves or so they say but he won thew title from Ryan in an unconventional bout and who really knows about so many others ... my point and it is one that John L. stated himself is that he did not train or fight like the post Corbett era .. by the time Jeffries was champ i was a whole other style of fighting ... Sullivan was never trained , never sparred, never learned to throw a jab .. in many ways he was far bore bare knuckle then M of G ...

 

Good, informative post:good

 

Not just retirement, he was a terrible drunk and his body was shot ... he survived multiple severe health scares and injuries ansd it is amazing he beat Kilran in 89 let alone came back years later to fight an absolute prime Corbett ... Sullivan was an extremely old 34 when he fought Corbett .. the mere fact that he took such punishment for over 20 rounds in many ways tells me more about him than any other feat ...

 

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...ight&y=0&x=0&dateFilterType=yearRange&index=2

Here is a really good account of John L's fight against John Flood, written by John L himself. Also, there is a pretty good comparison of the old era vs the new ear (for those days) written by robert edgren.

 

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/l...ight&y=0&x=0&dateFilterType=yearRange&index=4

here is a slightly different and more detailed version.

 

I think Corbett is undersold as a puncher.

He was verry destructive against anybody smaller than him and he seems to have hurt everybody bigger than him. He staggered Jeffries, which Bob Fitzsimmons never seems to have done.

Dosn't matter muche either way though.

The reality is that any elite heavyweight would likley have made easy work of John L Sullivan that night.

 

Sullivan was a physical marvel .... in prime condition he was 188 0r 190, not the "big man" he is often referred to ... at that point he was more a fat man ...

By all accounts and coverage, he was very fast of hand, had a tremendous right hand punch, stamina, heart and chin ... great physical skills ... however, he was for the most part self-trained and not advanced in style what so ever ... he was closer to a tough man today than a skilled prize fighter ... you cannot compare him to the more sophisticated guys that came later ...

I do believe that if he were trained in a later era and his skills developed he would be a brutal guy in the 200 and under class for sure ...