Of what we can see ,which rounds do you give to Ketchel? I don't think Ketchel was play acting ,I think he was going for it every second he was conscious.Johnson was carrying him to put on a show for the public and make the film rights viable. Johnson and his coterie had bet on a Johnson victory inside 14 rds.
He looks absolutely terrible, all over the place. People have a hard time on this forum of accepting reality and get very caught up in nostalgia, this guy could be a prime example, I haven’t read through the thread, I’d pick Inoue to knock this guy out nevermind the middleweights
Good info, I don't know if I give Ketchel any really, they both look pretty ropey but Jack is always in control dictating the fight, until round 12 and then he finishes it of course.
The old greatness vs H2H story again. Let's just say that his greatness was greater than how he looks on film.
That was a pretty stacked middleweight era to on paper. In addition to Ketchell himself, you have Thomas, Sullivan, Papke, Kelly, Klaus. Up to WWII there were people who argued that Papke would have reigned supreme in any other era. It is true that Ketchell doesn't pass the eye test, but he dominated O' Brien who looks much better on film. I suspect that the available footage doesn't tell us everything.
It has always been curious to me...In this era a guy is lauded for throwing a ton of punches, Ketchel is considered crude for doing so. I am not going to comment on whether or not he was "great" buit there is often a difference between being visually pretty (the "eye test") and being effective. Having lived In Butte, Montana, for many years, the history of Stanley Ketchel is real to me. He had 41 fights in Montana, and began his career in Butte when he was 15; at that age he was working as a bouncer in a brothel/saloon in the Butte redlight district. At the time, those few blocks were considered on par with the San Francisco waterfront and New Orleans as the roughest places in the US. Ultimately, Ketchel was run out of Butte for vagrancy- he was a community problem- and he resented it and never acknowledged his Montana connection again. At some point I will learn how to post pictures on here and I will post pictures of where Ketchel used to run about. Years ago I had the privilege of meeting a man, a local historian, that knew a ton about Ketchel. He had interviews with people that knew him and had seen him fight, going back decades. He drove a cab late at night and I would pay him to drive me around town and talk to me about Ketchel. When it is all said and done, Stanley Ketchel was a hard man among hard men that grew up in hard times. He embraced violence, was not afraid of getting hurt, not afraid of losing, but would fight his heart out until the end. He was a fighter, through and through.
He would be a UFC/MMA guy today, not a boxer. Certainly a tough customer who proved the saying " live fast, die young and leave a good looking corpse". But even for his day he was crude and won fights solely due to a bad attitude and a ferocious will to win. The modern guy I'd compare him to would be Marlboro smoking, trash talking Mayorga. Shouldn't be on anyone's top 20 MW list, IMO.
the Johnson knockout was simply exquisite It goes to prove how quickly the better fighters could dispatch Ketchel whenever they wanted. When the fight got serious, it was instant lights out I can still see Johnson picking the teeth out of his glove Michael Nunn would have had a field day with Stan and pazienza on a good day, would beat him
I will also point out that Sam fought under wraps as Ketchel would not consent to a title fight,and Langford wanted to entice him to accept one by not going full out.
