how great was the great jimmy bivins

He had an amazing record at his peak. For some reason he went downhill after the controversial loss to Jersey Joe Walcott.

Until then he had a record of 52 wins, including wins over Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Lloyd Marshall, Charley Burley, Joey Maxim, Teddy Yarosz, Gus Lesnevich, Melio Bettina, Lee Q Murray, Tami Mauriello, Bob Pastor, Lee Savold, Oakland Billy Smith... Only 5 losses, all during the first 2 years of his career.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmBHz6vDwuA
Bivins vs Moore V

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVJPgXWk7RM
Bivins vs Charles IV

Bivins was not in his prime but he was still a capable boxer even at this stage of his career. The Moore fight is more of a boxing match while the Charles fight gets quite ugly with all the holding and hitting.

 

The decision was split and a surprise. But Walcott had the edge the whole way, from what I understand. And he had an outstanding seventh, knocking Bivins down and battering him around the ring.

 

Honestly? The Bivins-Charles match shown above, which I have, doesn't impress me.

 

It was not controversial. The New York times reported "Walcott had the edge all the way" and Walcott knocked Bivins down in the 7th with a sneaky right hand to the chin.

Seems The scorecards were a lot closer than the fight actually was.



FYI, Bivins was a great great fighter, but he beat moore and charles while they were small and still developing as fighters. Once they got older bigger and better they handled Bivins every time. Still Bivins deserves alot of credit for beating them.

 

BTW,

GreatA Knockoutprom.com lists Bivins-Moore fight you uploaded as there SECOND fight in 1947, not the 1952 fight.

 

Exactly what I was going to say.

He was probably the best fighter in the world from '42 to early '46. He had one of the most impressive run of wins in boxing history during that time, and was the top rated contender at both light-heavyweight and heavyweight at the same time - something I don't think I've ever seen elsewhere. Unfortunately for him, the titles at both LHW and HW were frozen during that exact duration, because the champions at each weight (Lesnevich and Louis) were serving in the military (Bivins had decisively beaten Lesnevich in a non-title fight just before he went in the army too). Talk about being friggin' unlucky! :-( By the time the champions finally came back out of the army, Bivins had lost his top rating on that decision to Walcott, and Walcott ultimately went on to get a shot at Louis instead. Bivins floated in and out of contention for the next decade or so, but never regained the full form or consistency he showed in the early '40s. When he finally did get his long overdue matchup with Louis (when both were past their primes), he was beaten decisively, much like Eddie Machen against Floyd Patterson.

 

Knockoutprom is mistaken then. That's a common occurrence among sellers with such large collections, they have trouble keeping track of exactly what they have.

Everything about that clip matches up with the circumstances of the '52 fight. Besides, I don't think that kind of footage (live TV broadcasts w/ commercials and commentary) existed much before the '50s.

 

I know but the scoring was questionable since two of the judges actually gave the fight to Bivins on a rounds basis (6-4, 5-4-1) but one of the two judges saw Walcott as the winner despite this because Jersey Joe scored a knockdown.

Moore and Charles were better without a doubt and won their series but Bivins deserves credit for beating two of the greatest fighters of all time, even if he was outweighed them.

Moore was on a good run at the time, including two wins over Lloyd Marshall. Charles was coming off wins over Maxim, Burley and Basora.

I believe it's the fourth fight from 1948.

Charles was knocked down heavily in the 3rd round during the second fight. The film doesn't have any knockdowns.

 

Sorry I thought you meant the Charles vs Bivins fight.

It's the fifth Moore vs Bivins fight.

Description of Moore vs Bivins V:

The second fight was also a 9th round TKO but it would be quite a coincidence if their fights ended twice in exactly the same way.

My2Sense is right about there not being TV coverage like that in the 1940's.

 

Thanx Mysense and Great A for clearing that up

 

Mysense, Bivins run was impressive. but He did get a highly controversial decision over Lee Q Murray during this time that should have been a loss. Murray was recognized duration heavyweight champion by ohio and maryland commisions after his knockout of top contender 6'4 Harry Bobo. Murray held a claim to the duration title too.




Cleveland Promoter Believes Murray Can Take Joe Louis:


BY JACK CUDDY


NEW YORK, Dec. 7—(UP)—


Larry Atkins of Cleveland,
America's second ranking
prizefight promoter, believes
that Lee. Q. Murray, big Connecticut
negro, is the most
dangerous potential threat to
Sgt. Joe Louis' heavyweight
crown.
"If the war wuz to end to
morrow,"says promoter Atkins,


"I'd say the man most
likely to lick
Louis wuz Lee Q. Murray."
This Atkins' praise of Murray
was so entirely unexpected
that a startled reporter inquired
of the visiting Cleveland entrepreneur
last night, "how
come you boost, Murray, when
he almost'ruined Jimmy Bivins,
your meal, ticket, last week?"
Atkins, a youngish, broadshouldered,
black-haired chap
of 41, fixed thereporter with steely eyes, and remonstrated,'In our Cleveland promotions,we have no meal tickets. We have cards. A Cleveland fighter is a card as long as he can lick anybody we bringin. When he loses to an outsider, the outsider becomes the card." In the case of Murray vs.
"Card" Bivins of Cleveland,
promoter Atkins was doubly
fortunate. Little Bivins won an
unpopular 10-round decision
over Murray last Wednesday
night, after Murray had the
Cleveland negro staggering
about the ring and dripping with
gore. The fans booed the-decision
so long, and so lustily that
a re-match was as necessary as
if by royal command. They'll
tangle, again in late February
— after both principals recover
from their wounds.
Atkins, who in four short
years changed Cleveland from
one of the country's worst fight
cities into a promoter's paradise,
said, "I knew Murray was a
good fighter before I matched
him'with Bivins. But during the
first two rounds, I thought
Murray would ruin me. He
never let loose with a punch.
Disgustedly, I left my seat at
the ringside, and walked to the
rear of the arena. But Murray
was just mouse-trapping his
man. He knew Bivins was a
cutie and he was sucking him
in. Bivins left himself open in
the third round, and Murray
hit him. Bivins rolled with that
right-hand punch to the chin;
but the force was so terrific
that Bivins wasn't the same for
the rest of the fight.
This part still needs some cleaning up, as the background noise and whatnot on the paper registers as text when you copy off an old newspaper.
"Murray hit him so hard over
the left brow in the sixth round
that you could have stuck your
thumb in the cut; but Bivins is
not the duration heavyweight
.champ for nothing. He managed
to put-smark' Murray for the
distance; and I honestly thought
he won the fight; although it.
didn't matter to me who won—
as
I had Murray tied up on a
contract, too."
Atkins, who drew" $360,000
with his Cleveland bouts'jn'1942,
and who has provided bouts
that drexv $413,000'this year, concluded,
"I don't .know whether
little Bivins, who '.weighs' only
about •• 187 ..pounds, or Murray,
who has 200 on six. foot two.
frame, is 'the better fighter.
But Murray is the most' dangerous.
He's .the most" terrific
puncher I ever saw; he hits as
hard as. Louis. He's • still a little•
awkward —being, a converted'
Southpaw. But being a Convert-
ed Southpaw ' makes 'him': a
switch hitter, who .can, knock'
you dead with either'hand.'And
:he's only 23."
•Atkins, in New York on a business
trip, said it seemed
a dream that he — an under
study to Mike Jacobs — 'should
have the two best civilian
heavyweights in the world tied
up on contracts He hoped he
still had .a contract on Murray
.when Sergeant .Louis got out of
.the Army. .

 

Well I may be in the minority with this, but I firmly believe Archie Moores did not reach the pinnacle of his powers until the early 1950s where he combined his physical tools with his ring science and years of experience making him a ATG fighter. If you watch the youtube link of Moore vs Bivins 1952, I think that is Moore right there at his absolute peak.

Ezzard Charles was only 165lb when he fought Bivins the first time. When he came back from the war in 1946, Charles was now a more mature stronger 180lb, and in the late 40s he handily beat Bivins everytime they fought and Bivins was still pretty much near his prime in 1946 when Charles knocked him out.


Im pretty sure Moore won 5 in a row including 3 by knockout over Bivins which is pretty dominating, and Charles won what 3 or 4 in a row vs Bivins including a 4 round knockout in 1946.

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