How great was Tony Canzoneri?

(I don't know. Let me check boxrec)... 98% of the posters here.

 

Wow a fighter your finally into

 

Post in my kid chocolate canzoneri thread

One of the best fights I have ever seen :good

 

You could rate him within the top 20 as Boxed Ears said. It's down to personal taste though I'd put Tony above Barney Ross because their two fights were very close and when they did fight ringsiders thought Tony was coming off the boil. He was officially past it by his late 20's.

 

A brilliant counterpuncher, superb reflexes, versatile, and slick. A great, great fighter. Top 25 presumably.

 

Tony Canzoneri was a great lightweight fighter in a great era of lightweights, no doubt...But if I may let me add a little perspective to this this thread...
In the 1950s I went to a boxing seminar in New England at a beautiful spa. Ruby Goldstein who was once considered the next coming of Benny Leonard as a great lightweight, until he ran afoul of a rough and tough rowdy named Ace Hudkins was the main speaker on the dais...Goldstein floored or ko'd every opponent til he was upset by Ace Hudkins was asked this question.
"Ruby, how would you rate Barney Ross, Jimmy McLarnin, Henry Armstrong,
Tony Canzoneri, Lou Ambers, Benny Leonard---? Goldstein took his stogie out of his mouth and shouted," please DO NOT mention any of these fighters in the same sentence with Benny Leonard"... "We were second raters compared to him ". Heady words coming from a man who saw them all in action...
Lest we forget just how great Benny Leonard in his glorious prime was...
Not to take anything away from Canzy, Ross and the 1930s bunch of great
lightweights...I personally never forgot that afternoon seminar, and what Ruby Goldstein uttered...

 

EXCELLENT, that's how good, and also Film of him exists of proper quality to show this to be true too...

(@ eastpaw) for the oldtimer journey men thread regarding true representation in film.

 

No doubt about it, Leonard was on another level, though he did admire Canzoneri's unorthodox ways and warned Ross about them prior to fight I.

When you fight that many times against stellar opposition one thing that's bound to plummet is your knockout percentage which can misinform new fans. Similar to 'Jersey' Joe, Tony often decked opponents that lasted the distance.

 

I see it this way for sure :good

 

There is a REAL good argument that he belongs some where on that ATG great maybe around the top 25-30 mark. The Ring magazine listed him as 34 on the greatest 80 fighters ever. He fought 18 world champs 6 HOFers, 137 wins and was 5 time world champ in an era with only 1 title. He fought and beat the very best (Lou Ambers, Kid Chocolate, Barney Ross, Jack Kid Berg it goes on and on just check out boxrec) of his day and that is how we define greatness. He even jumped up a weight class and was champ there too. He wasn't a great puncher and yes his title reigns were rather short, but the guy was a gamer always ready to go jump back in to avenege a loss.

Those guys from the 30's fought so often, Tony C even fought 20-25 times in one year but mostly 6 times a year in his prime. Unheard of today. 175 total bouts even if only a quarter of those fights were actual wars that is a huge amount of punishment on the human body. Crazy to think his career lasted nearly 15 years.

I really respect Mike Tyson's opinion when it comes to boxing history. He spent countless hours watching those old films when he lived with Cus. There is a biography up on Youtube where one boxing writer went to Catskills to do some stories about Cus's amatuer fighters. Cus says I have another fighter who is going to be great why don't you meet him. The writer meets 13-14 yr old Tyson who is watching these films. The writer asks him who his favourite fighters are. Tyson answers with Jack Dempsey, Tony Canzoneri and Rocky Marciano. Tyson says all these guys overcame great reach disadvantages and could get inside on their opponents. He was basing his own style on them.

Espn did an interview with Tyson the day before he was going in the HoF in 2011. He said "I'm very grateful to boxing. I just wanted to be a fighter. I wanted to be a great fighter, like the guys I watched on videos, like Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Gans, Willie Pep, Tony Canzoneri, Roberto Duran. I used to watch those guys. Now I'm going in with those guys. I am excited". Tyson really idolised Canzoneri.

 

He has to be top 20 all time?

 

I wouldn't argue within someone who had him in that list. Its just to me he didnt have a huge long dominating title reign at any one time in all of the times he actually won the title. I'm probably being a bit nick-picky but we are talking top 20 of all time thats inlcudes a lot of legends over the years we have to try and distinguish between them.

Maybe this will put some perspective on the issue. In 1999, The Associated Press ranked Canzoneri as the fourth best featherweight, the third best lightweight, and the third best junior welterweight of the 20th century. Maybe if he was rated first in at least one weight division he could crack the top 15-20. The guy is still one of boxing immortals no question about that.

But Bert Sugar agrees with you. He had Tony C ranked 12th of all time.