How hard do you find it to rank Pacquiao...

I think his best weight would be either lw or jww. He could make both know, wouldn't be smaller than most of the guys who fought there and as complete as he ever could be - I don't think he can improve much more.

Raking him h2h is a tough choice. I wouldn't rate him highly h2h in any division he fought at. He either would be too small or would have too many flaws. I think jww would be the wightclass I would rank him the highest.

 

He usually gets matched with all-time greats, whch is probably why a number of people pick against him.More an indication of how highly thought of the retired guy that is easier to assess is, than a knock on a still active Pac.

Just one example is all the Duran comparisons matchups.It might be more even if we were trying to establish if Pac was better than someone like Dejesus, BUchanan, Carter etc..

That and if there weren't so many fanboys.


Personally, i don't find him that tough to judge head to head, but i do think there is a bigger gap between his worth there and where he might rank taking everything into account, than a lot of other great fighters.

 

Pac is def an ATG because of his accomplishments, especially in being a multi-weight champion, but he's tough to rate because he hasn't cleared out any divisions. He fought the best the divisions had to offer and even though they were on the decline he demolished many of them like no had before. However he fought mostly tailor-made aggresive fighters on the decline and didn't clear out any divisions to state his case as the number 1 fighter of that division. I'd say his most proven weights are 130-below where he was definitely a great champion made numerous defeneses against the best in the division. At 135 up there are too many challenges and slick boxers that would definitely give Pac a tough time.

Problem with today's boxing is that it's too much of a business. Rich boxers have teams to help mold them and pick their opponents right for their style whether the boxer himself is aware of it or not. Not like the old days when people could hardly avoid each other and many would fight for glory with money wheras today it's money and some glory. (Kind of like Rocky III when Mick tells Rock they hand picked his opponents to keep his winning streak going.)

 

Pac has holes in his game that a great counter puncher, fast hands, defensive fighter with an excellent right hand will exploit and outbox him. The best 2 quality right handers he faced were Morales and JMM and he was in trouble. Fighters without those characteristics would get overwhelmed by him at most weights. Styles make fights

 

Were you joking the other day when you said Ortiz-Pacquiao (bantamweight) would be a draw?

 

He was limited and chinny at the lower weights and hasnt fought so much at the higher weights despite being an exceptional fighter there. Ideal match-ups for him against p4p greats come somewhere inbetween.

 

Please ban Russell.

 

For me its hard to rank him, because he hasnt beaten a guy like Mayweather who is great and in his prime. There is questions with the ODLH win, the second Morales fight, the JMM fights, Hatton was overated, Cotto was in my opinion his best win, but how battered is Cotto realistically. I think if he beats Mayweather soundly it kind of put things in better perspective for me.

 

I thought beating Cotto was going to convince you.

I have no trouble with anyone questioning the DLH win, because even though virtually none of us thought Pac would win that fight going in, Oscar plainly wasn't exactly in his best form. The JMM fights were razor close, and I don't blame anyone who has JMM winning either fight. (Although it should also be noted that if the one judge had scored the first round of the first fight properly, Pacquiao would have edged that one too on the scorecards).

I kinda have to roll my eyes at people questioning the second Morales win. The third I understand, obviously Erik had lost the fire and was physically past it, but the second fight was, what, 10 months after the first bout where Erik won? And he went from elite to shot in that time? Why, because in between Erik lost a fight in a weight class where he had never fought before? Weak.

And while Hatton was undoubtedly overrated, he was also undefeated at 140 and lineal and Ring champion. Before training, Hatton has about 40 pounds on Pacquiao, maybe more, and he got hit with one of the most crushing KO losses in history.

I also see no mention of Barrera in your post. In their first bout Barrera is 29, coming off one of the best stretches in his career and he got slaughtered by Pacquiao. Or does Marco not count as a great fighter?

 

What is difficult is that b/c of his breadth of work he is very high on all time lists where resume is the predominant criteria, but head to head at all his weight classes I would favor several fighters over Pac.

 

Very much agreed with you, McGrain. I think it's an interesting question to think about what Pacquiao's status at lightweight could have been, because his sole performance there was an extraordinary one, albeit against a terribly overmatched opponent in Diaz.

Given his performances at Jr Welter and Welter, you have to assume that for as long as Pacquiao could make weight there he would have probably been a deadly lightweight, but we can't say for sure because we only have the one bout to go on.

In some ways it remind me a bit of Chavez, whose signature bout was at lightweight and he looked absolutely awesome in completely dismantling Rosario, however he fought relatively few bouts at lightweight, (and even fewer against world class opposition) as it was largely a stopover between Jr Lightweight and Jr Welterweight. It's likely that lightweight would have been the best weight class for Chavez, but again we can't say because of the relatively little time put in there.