How has boxing evolved from the early years.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Samtotheg, May 6, 2021.

  1. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    Yes, he talked a lot of times about how terrible 1940s and 1950s boxers were. Not all, but even for someone like SRR, Archie Moore or Ezzard Charles he's been saying that they weren't good enough to win a belt in today's divisions.
     
  2. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lol... he has said that? Obvious no one can agree with that - and I doubt, if he honestly believes that himself!
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    To be fair to Pat M (and I know he loves us talking about him), he usually attributes the dumbest stuff ("SRR was wild swinging", "laughing at Willie Pep's skills" or whatever ) to anonymous boxers and trainers at his gym, who he nevertheless regards as experts of some sort with far more credibility than anyone on the internet, and more credibility than 'celebrity' trainers such as Manny Steward, or (his favourite) "historians" such as "Bert Sugar".. He's a mess really, a complete troll, but he often attempts some distance between himself and the stupidest comments, though not always. One of the best posters here for laughs, one of the very worst if you take him seriously at all. I'm a designated fan club member. :lol:

    The guy who started this thread, Samotheg, I don't know whose alt that is.
     
  4. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    Some of his quotes:

    About SRR:
    About Moore:
    About HWs:
    About Charles vs Ward:
     
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  5. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah, what he says here (whether he's serious or not) doesn't sound right...

    ... but, honestly, is any of it worse than someone claiming that Fitzsimmons would stop Monzon and tear apart McCallum?
     
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  6. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    Yes, at least to me. I find Fitzsimmons to be special talent and he doesn't look bad on very limited film we have. You'll probably disagree with me, but I don't find it crazy to assume that the best P4P puncher ever could stop Monzon.
     
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  7. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    As you very well know, neither Monzon or McCallum ever suffered an inside-the-distance defeat in their long careers - but you believe good old lean-back Bob would flatten them both! And you don't think he looks at all bad, in the limited footage we have of him? Ok...
     
  8. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    I already explained that "flatten" is exaggaration but yes, I don't think that it's unlikely scenario that the strongest P4P puncher ever could stop them. It's far from given, but Fitzsimmons stopped durable heavyweights while being always inside LHW limit. I don't see how him being old or fighting at "lean-back" stance changes anything.
    We have very limited footage worth of anything and he fought against a fighter who didn't try to fight with him for most of the fight. He still set up his punches well, he had excellent reflex and his head movement was subtle, but effective. His punching power is visible even on this poor quality film we have.

    Fitzsimmons fought in different rules with different equippment. He probably wouldn't fight that way 100 years later, but neither would Monzon fight like he did 100 years ago. If you really think that your example is comparable to those Pat M used, then you only proved my first words that there are double standards on this forum.
     
  9. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So me using your statements, that Fitz would ko Monzon and "tear apart" McCallum, is proof of some kind of double standard on my part? How do you figure that?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
  10. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    Stop using "tear apart" phrase, I said it was exaggaration.

    I just don't find the statement that Fitz could beat Monzon or McCallum "hillarious" as you used the word in your first post. If that's your example of being hillarious, then I don't agree with your take at all.
     
  11. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If you think, the footage we have of Fitz indicates, that he would ko two of the most durable middleweights we've had in modern times... well, I'm sorry, but I find that very strange! Not saying it couldn't happen (in boxing we can't rule out anything) - but to me, it sure doesn't seem the most likely results in those two fantasy match-ups.
     
    Pat M likes this.
  12. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well said. Agree.
     
  13. Pat M

    Pat M Active Member Full Member

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    yep, I live rent free inside the heads of Unforgiven, 70sfan, gazelle, and a few others. It drives them crazy that I can watch video and see things they don't understand. When some watch boxing they just see two gloves throwing punches, they have no understanding of the feet, legs, and body and what they should be doing. My "Fan Club" of the guys listed above and a few others are the type who only see two gloved hands throwing punches.

    Like you, I saw Fitzsimmons and Corbett "fighting", anybody who thinks either of them could compete today just as they were in that video has revealed all I need to know about that person's understanding of boxing. That's why I don't respond to my "Fan Club", they've shown by their posts their true understanding of boxing. They are the type who probably hang on every word that Pacheco uttered while commenting on fights...I do take it as a compliment that each of the "Fan Club" members keep my posts catalogued and they remember them. Their actions prove that people who have no original thoughts and do no critical thinking are intrigued by those who do.
     
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  14. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Ii6 Full Member

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    :D :D :D
     
  15. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Hagiographer Full Member

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    I never understood this critisism of old fighters, plenty of modern boxers also lean back.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
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