How has your all time heavyweight list changed over the past 10-15 years?

AJ has wins against MUCH better opposition. Even better than Fury imo.
Povetkin
Parker
Ruiz
Klitchko
Takam
Pulev
Whyte
Are better than either of their wins

 

I respect your opinion, my friend.

 

I won't bother with an exact 15, but this:
Wlad up
Tyson up
Holmes down (a little bit)
Holyfield down (steroids)
Liston down
Foreman down
Dempsey down
Vitali up
Fury up
Marciano most likely up

The general theme is that I rate long title reigns and dominance more and rate guys who are surrounded by folklore but lack depth lower. I'm also careful not to assume a fighter's competition was worse because the fighter dominated them. I also think Liston's era sucked at least as much as Marciano's.

 

I found my list and comments from almost 15 years ago. Might be time to do it again. Holyfield would be lower and Foreman higher to start things off, changes wise.

From 2007 -

Of course this list like most is subject to change.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Larry Holmes
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Evander Holyfield
7. Mike Tyson
8. George Foreman
9. Joe Frazier
10. Sonny Liston





1. Muhammad Ali

Holds the best top shelf wins in Heavyweight history and did quite well when way past past his greatest.

2. Joe Louis

Sheer time at the top and number of defenses need no explaining. Pushing Ali.

3. Lennox Lewis

Beat every man he ever fought, avenging two stoppage losses in totally convincing fashion and retired while still on top with a win that only got better. Beat the greatest of his era excepting Bowe who preferred to throw his title in the trash bin rather than face the big Brit.

4. Larry Holmes

Didn't have the greatest of era's and ducked a few late first career but apart from that has a lot of runs on the board. One i feel would really rise to the occasion against better opposition. Unbelievable heart and determination and a fantastic fighter when hurt.

5. Rocky Marciano

49-0 and beat the best of his day. Automatic inclusion.

6. Evander Holyfield

When Frazier, Foreman, Tyson, Liston and co. are opened up he starts to sneak thru a bit IMO. He's got a multitude of good second tier wins and great longevity. After number 5 i believe the list weakens a lot resume wise. There is IMO a fair jump from 5 to 6 and 6 - 10 is VERY murky waters.

7. Mike Tyson

I have to be honest and say i am not totally comfortable with ranking Tyson this highly. I take jail into account as stopping his best attempt at redeeming himself for the sudden Douglas loss and burn out. It would have been interesting. His ranking is basically gained by his extraordinary waltz thru numerous ranked contenders in such a short time, culminating in a unified title again at long last. A big minus is his two efforts as fave vs Holyfield, but thankfully for Tyson Holyfield has garnered a very high rating.

8. George Foreman

Resume wise we are starting to thin out in area's. Realistically George's only real meaningful wins are the three totally dominant efforts over Frazier and Norton and his comeback win over Moorer, which is magnified by age. George and preaching is a little like Tyson and jail, both moving out of boxing for a substantial period while still near their top. Of course Ali and Louis had their gaps too. Basically George's scintillating wins over a great in Frazier, a near great in Norton and his renowned comeback win over Moorer is what gains him number 8.

9. Joe Frazier

I wouldn't have a problem with people rating Frazier higher. His win over Ali and second tier wins hold him in reasonable stead and he is plenty underrated today.

Realistically 6-10 could be shuffled around in almost any order, it's that tight.

10. Sonny Liston

I want to put Sonny up the list but can't find quite enough achievements. His two blowouts of Patterson are very notable however, and should have perhaps come sooner leading to a few defenses before the Clay loss and making for a better record. Head to head he is top 5 IMO. I don't hold the second Ali bout against him and i don't doubt he was older than claimed and was at his best well prior to getting his shot. I feel confident picking him over Frazier, Foreman and Marciano of those ranked above him.

 

Regardless of what I think of him H2H, saying he was never the best or even 2nd best in the world is just not accurate. Before Fury's return and Usyk's move up to heavyweight their's literally no way you can say he was worse than 2nd best.

 

I agree. AJ flat out quit against an unranked chubster. Wilder was brutally knocked out by Fury, BEGGED for a rematch relentlessly to the point where he took Fury to court to get his rematch and performed much better, and showed no fear nor mental inferiority against a man who dominated, outclassed, and stopped him.

 

Was he better than Povetkin during that period? I don't really know why, who did he beat before Fury comeback?

 

Look who he beat to get this belt and who he defended against. Outside of Ortiz (who is mostly unknown with no resume), his opponents were just poor.

I don't like using a fight fighter lost to rank him on the list. Maybe AJ wasn't as courage as Wilder, but he beat more top level fighters. I'm not talking about h2h abilities here, I am talking about resume and AJ has much deeper list of wins.

Povetkin
Parker
Ruiz
Klitchko
Takam
Pulev
Whyte

I think that's quite a bit better list than Wilder wins.

 

The windmill going full circle???? Wouldn't his head be safe in the middle of it all?

Gotta be a self uppercut!!!

 

I was half asleep. Give me a break!

 

Well you shouldn't be posting under extreme fatigue!!!!!!

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A list I agree with except that I would have Wlad and Johnson in there. Why haven't you included them?

 

Wilder is brave, no doubt. But that Joshua quit... He was absolutely done, surely no one denies that. Whether he intentionally quit or just didn't know where he was (I think the latter, personally) is more a question of interpretation of events, but he clearly had nothing left. I don't really hold it against a fighter who quits when he has no way of winning and the only question is if he will get permanent damage or not. Sense isn't cowardice in such a brutal sport.

The loss is bad, though.

 

I was at the fight. My interpretation was that Joshua was hurt badly to the body in the round before—he got hit and just started circling and not throwing for about a minute straight. He came out for the next round hoping to land something big and take control again. It didn’t go his way and he sort of communicated w body language to the ref that he was finished without formally quitting.

Also, Ruiz is no joke and has heart and skill.

 

I can't remember. I actually did threads on each place in here with forum input but they didn't quite survive the cut. Johnson could fairly be inside the top 10 but i must have had a reason for not having him in there, personally.

Wlad loses a lot of points for me personally, perhaps unfairly. The fact that his brother was stalking around on and off for so much of his career is a massive downer. Sure, you couldn't expect them to fight but the fact is the best or next best heavyweight of his era, a guy that was also quite dominant, was walking around concurrently. This slips him just outside the 10 for me personally. Johnson would have been only just outside it.