How has your opinion changed on Sullivan, Corbett, Fitz, Jeffries, Langfod, Grebb etc

When you start to really look in detail at a great fighter of the past your opinions on that fighter will change considerably. Especially with those pre 1920. If they don’t then you probably haven’t researched the fighter seriously enough.

This post is about how my opinions have changed on a number of great historic fighters. Particularly the ones where I got the biggest surprises. I would also like to hear about which fighters YOUR opinions have changed most on and how.

Here are a few that stand out for me:

Jawn L Sullivan
Like most people I approached Sullivan with the view that he might have been a primitive champion/hardman and that Corbett represented an evolutionary leap to the first true heavyweight champion.

Since then I have come to think that Sullivan represented a bigger evolutionary leap than Corbett in many ways. Sullivan at his peak was far beyond anything that anybody could remember from living memory. There had been small technical fighters like Sayers and big crude fighters like Heenan. Then along came this 200 lb slugger with the hand speed of a middleweight and a methodical approach to offence. The prototype for Jack Dempsey.

Bob Fitzsimmons
I always thought that Fitzsimmons was one of the greatest middleweights of all time but felt that historians who bracketed him with guys like Dempsey, Louis or even Corbett were overrating him. I generally agreed with the following statement by Monte Cox:

“It is my contention that Fitzsimmons should be rated among the all time greats as a middleweight and he, in fact, was a middleweight for most of his career. The idea that Fitzsimmons was anything more than a middleweight is a myth”.

Since I have started to study his career in more detail I have come to believe the hype. I now believe that Fitzsimmons was one of the best heavyweight finishers of all time and should rank among the top 15 or 20 all time heavyweights.

Terry McGovern
II always knew that McGovern was a wrecking machine for his size. What I had never thought was that he might be a pioneer of boxing technique!!!!!!!!

The more I have studied press clippings of Terry McGovern the more it comes across that he was seen as heralding a new era of offensive boxing technique. The Brooklyn Daily Eagle wrote that McGovern had:

“Redefined boxing technique for a generation and forced everybody else to fight at his pace”
McGovern gave rise to a new generation of offensive finishers including Jack Dillon, Jack Dempsey and ultimately Mike Tyson".

Sam Langford
Like with Bob Fitzsimmons I saw Langford at the outset as being great for his size but too small to hang with the big boys.

In this case also I have come to believe the hype. I now think that the Tar Baby was one of the greatest heavyweight finishers of all time right up there with Dempsey Louis and Tyson. I would expect him to beat anybody once in a series of three.

Many people will include that I have regressed in my interpretations of Fitzsimmons and Langford but if the get deep into these two fighters they risk being drawn closer to my position.

Harry Wills
I used to think of Wills as being just another talented black fighter who didn’t get his chance. Not on the level of Peter Jackson and Sam Langford but more on the level of Sam McVea.

Wills actually beat more world class fighters than any other heavyweight in history including Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali. I have come to appreciate his body of work and see him as a towering figure similar to Larry Holmes in stature.

Fritzie Zivic
Here is a modern one for those who are less interested in early fighters. Based on Zivics record and reputation you would conclude that he was an inconsistent fighter who relied heavily on dirty tactics to win.

Looking at the details of his fights I have come to think of Zivic as being one of the most cerebral fighters of all time. In every fight that I have studied he fought a brilliantly planned fight and frustrated his opponent preventing them from doing what they wanted.

Over to you guys…………

 

You dont just have to talk about the fighters I have listed.

I would like to hear about any fighter where you have changed your opinion against your expectations.

 

Wills paper resume is exceptional. He probably faced more top oponents than any other heavyweight in history. Beyond this he is a bit of an unknown quantity.

I dont hold the Langford losses against him. Langford knocked everybody out one way or another.

What I am most interested in here is fighters where you have changed your views as you have got to know more about them.

 

Just look at Flowers record.

Virtualy all his losses were by knockout. He just didnt seem to loose by decision.

Harry Greb thought that he was potentialy capable of beating Jack Dempsey.