How Impressive Was Dempsey s Kd Of Tunney?

He caught Tunney pretty well, but I think Gene would've gotten up no matter what the count was.

 

Ive tried to be as precise for you as possible because you are the one who doesnt seem to be able to comprehend what was being stated. Here, I will simplify even further:

1. How Impressive Was Dempsey s Kd Of Tunney? When we look at the career of Gene Tunney, how good his chin was, then take in to consideration that Dempsey was at the end of the line.

2. "Who were all of the heavyweight punchers Tunney faced to prove he had a great chin at HW?" (this was my response to the OP in relation to Dempsey's KD of Tunney. If someone makes the comment that Tunney had a great chin at the time of the Dempsey knockdown then that must be based on past examples of punches he took correct? Or do we just assume, with zero context, that Tunney had a great chin because he had never been knocked down? I dont call a guy who knocked out 300 setups a puncher merely by virtue of him knocking out setups. I also dont give a guy credit for having a great chin if hes either never been hit or never faced a puncher simply because he was never knocked down.

3. In answer to the above: But Tunney is still looked at by boxing historians as a great fighter....

4. I answered that I never said Tunney wasnt a great fighter. Im still not sure where this was construed from my comments above about Tunney's chin. In discussing Tunney's chin and how great it supposedly was going into the Dempsey KD, which is the context of this discussion, I noted that outside of Dempsey Carpentier was the hardest puncher he had faced and from there his record against punchers drops off dramatically. And yes, outside of Dempsey Carpentier is the hardest single puncher Tunney fought. Im confident of that.

5. Somehow you ignored the entire context of everything above and decided that I was saying Carpentier was the single hardest puncher Tunney fought in his entire career up to and including Dempsey and anyone after. Im not sure how you got that from the trajectory and natural progression of this discussion.

Is that simple enough for you?

 

I knew you meant aside from Dempsey, but you didnt specify that, so I saw an opportunity to correct a poster who is regularly and uncessarily condescending to others, and I took it.

Now I'm smiling to myself at the time and effort you've gone to in writing lengthy posts explaining yourself.

 

Carpentier, Dempsey and Heeley where his major heavyweight bouts. Most of his time was spend in the light heavyweights and going into that division he proves he had a pretty good chin, how much of a jump was it back then??? 175 pounds to like 190??? 200 at most??? I do not think it is that far fetched to guess Tunney MAY of had a good chin even at heavyweight. He was in, won the crown and retire in about 2 years' time.

 

Sure, he's a great fighter in the historic context. But Boxing Historians are largely a waste of time.

 

Just on Sharkey dropping his hands and turning away after the low blow by Dempsey.

For so many years thereafter it allowed for the ad nauseam repetition of the boxing law: protect yourself at all times - this match being the supposed poster fight in terms of advertising the most expensive failure to adhere to that advice.

Advice that Sharkey somehow “forgot” in the heat of the moment, without any context called in otherwise. Lol.

Imo, it has long been false advertising.

Sharkey got hit square in the nuts. Immediately the pain in his nether regions was all that he knew - his only universe.

Sharkey’s actions were totally consistent with being hit in the balls - hands dropping to the damaged area, head turning, face contorted in pain, beginning to double up.

Those actions were far more reflexive in response to pain than consciously acted out.

Clearly, Sharkey did not consciously breach the “protect yourself at all times” wisdom.

Really, that’s the whole idea behind hitting someone in the highly vulnerable ball bag - one stop punch to make nothing else matter and fold you up like a deck chair.

Tbh, I’ve seen some very blatant, deliberate hits to the groin - but I’ve never seen a fighter so seamlessly follow up with a legit punch to the head as Dempsey did.

The Old Mauler knew exactly what he was doing when he hit Sharkey low to set him up for the head shot.

Dempsey fouled Sharks but somehow Sharks was the guy who committed the ultimately fatal sin?

I’ve never bought that “line”, not for one second.

 

Beautiful combo but it looked to me that he held back on couple of those right hands. I don't know why

 

Their is a second angle of the Sharkey knockdown where he appears more hurt by the shot to jaw than from the low blows it’s hard to find but I swear I saw it on YouTube years ago

 

I mean….was it? He basically sucker-punched Sharkey after heinously fouling him for the last 2 rounds.

I suppose you can call it a good demonstration of Dempsey’s remaining power at this stage, given how Sharkey wasn’t stopped with one punch too often.

 

300 set ups? If I fought my sister 300 times she'd win 15 of them. We're about the same weight although my reach and height favor me. And I bet she'd floor you as well a couple times.

 

Excellent post ... I always felt in many ways Dempsey proved more of what he might have been if active post Willard in the Sharkey and Tunney fights than in any of his filmed victories ... first of all by many accounts he did not lose 19 of 20 rounds vs Tunney .... you can also watch the fights ( what exists of them ) in slow motion and see just how many times the older Dempsey came extremely close to connecting and doing damage ... the Sharkey and Tunney he fought were excellent cruiserweights in their own primes ... Dempsey showed incredible grit, guts, chin and heart against both ... the combo that put Gene down was lighting and brutal. The hook that took out Sharkey truly nasty.

To this day I have no idea how great (or good) Dempsey was based on inactivity and opponent selection .. he remains to me an enigma ... I honestly don't know if he was an under developed, underachieving heavyweight Duran or an exceptionally well promoted heavyweight Arturo Gatti .

 

Yes that's what Tunney always maintained. He knew he could've gotten up in time, but without those few precious seconds of recovery, he didn't know whether he could've survived Dempsey's follow up.

Edit: Just saw I posted the same thing in a reply over a year ago.

 

Impressive. I think prime Dempsey takes care of Tunney. Faster hands and footwork, not coming off a 2 year layoff. Dempsey KOs Tunney imo.

 

It’s not dropping Gene Tunney that would be impressive it’s catching him (he was a great boxer) the way Dempsey did, hurting and almost finishing him,

 

Its the opposite, Tunney had Dempsey on flimsy legs in the neutral corner near the end of the fourth (at 11:33). It started at 11:18 when Tunney put a right straight into Dempsey's face and then kept landing until the end of the round.

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