How is it that ali "lost his legs" and declined during the layoff?

Seriously, Bokaj ?

 

I'll let others decide the meaning and nature of this exchange:

 

Tyson caused pretty big problems in the first round too.

 

Take my challege. Go do a mile forward and then do a mile side-hopping. Or backwards.

See which takes more toll on the leg muscles. Walking forward works the same muscles that are used going forward in the ring.

 

Have you boxed?

 

Holyfield caused even bigger problems.

 

I thought Holyfield won the first round clearly enough. Tyson got in one good shot at the beginning and a a couple of other good shots. Tyson always come out fired up in the first round. Holyfield got in head shots, body shots and put Tyson off balance and outmuscled him. I think it started as Tyson's round, then became close up until about the last minute where Holyfield got in front and took it away from him.

Even for those people who will insist that fight was somehow "even" over the first 5 rounds until Tyson "got tired", the fact that Tyson was getting hit and hurt and outmuscled should be seen as why he went on to get beaten more and more. It wasn't a stamina problem, since even in his prime he wasn't a fast-paced fighter in the second half of fights ... it was actually the fact that he was getting hit and out-fought and outmuscled by, frankly, a better fighter.
To me, it was Holyfield who looked to be TIRED before Tyson did, the way he closed down a bit in the 5th round. But of course, it's no secret that Holyfield was prone to gassing like that mid-fight, especially at that career stage.

 

Comparing Tyson to Ali in terms of skills and declining skills/stamina etc. is an error anyway.

Ali came back off his lay-off as an unbeaten champion in 1970 and maintained world class and all-time great form, on and off (mostly on) for years, he adapted his style, and had some of his career best wins. After getting beat by Frazier in 1971, some people would even argue he improved over the next year or two.
Ali had been cut off right in his title reign and looking invincible and getting better in 1967.

Tyson had been beaten by Douglas in 1990 and taken a fair bit of punishment against Ruddock in two fights in 1991.
Many people would say he was already diminished. Some of his fans insist he was declined since 1989. He wasn't world champion when he went to jail. Some would say he was already declined a lot.

Ali and Tyson had totally different skillsets.

 

I don't think the lay-offs actually hurt Ali or Tyson in terms of skills and abilities anyway.

Ali was such a freakish fighter he simply couldn't have maintained his legs and agility much longer anyway. It's highly unlikely. He almost definitely missed out on some wins in the meantime, but by late 1970 or '71 he would have been more or less how he was anyway.

Tyson's lay-off probably prolonged his career. He may have been headed for a beating in 1992 against Holyfield and then one of the new contenders (Bowe or Lewis) by '93. I suppose you could make him 50-50 against any one of them - if we're generous - but the odds of a "post-Douglas" Tyson getting past two or all three of those guys without take a bad beating are long.

 

Yes, I think Ali often looked even better in 1972-74 than in 70-71 in his fights vs Bonavena or Frazier 1. He had just adapted his style and was very busy fighting every 2 months.

 

Very simple.....When you don't do something for 3-4 years skills erode. Physical condition wanes. You lose your Prime physical years.

 

Fighters like Mayweather and Leonard are the exception...not the rule...by a loooooong shot. Most.... if not all...lose it with time off.

 

Most boxers lose it anyway, whether they take time off or not.

 

Eventually of course. Those 3-4 years that were carved from Ali's career were his prime years. He would have racked up probably 9 or more additional title defenses. When he met Frazier it would have been an Ali ready for a fight.

 

that's a good post. too much inactivity as compared with actual fighting and training/dedication in between fights. Ali had been going on lecture tours, plays - everything related to non atheltic stuff. plus, as early as 1966/67, you could see that Ali looked somewhat heavier. even Joe Louis said that the Cassius of the early 60s would have given him more problems becuz he was slimmer, and more agile

RJ moved up too high then came abruptly back down to 175. you could plainly see this weakened him despite the decision win. the beating he took in that one fight proved his mortality as he quickly crumbled in the rematch