How is Usyk better than Canelo P4P?

Way to set the tone for the professionalism of your post.

Duran won a very dubious decision vs SRL. Ali won a very dubious decision vs Norton at Yankee Stadium. The decision was no more dubious than the long list of big close fights that went to the judges throughout boxing history. Those are still big wins, as is Canelo's. It's not Canelo's fault that GGG is past his prime. That's not Canelo's problem.

And if GGG is past him prime, then that's even more reason to accept a close Canelo decision win. If you are observing that GGG is past his prime, that he isn't as good as he once was. If that is the case, then the chances of him beating a prime Canelo are even less. Younger fighters generally win fights vs older past their prime fighters, and Canelo GGG was no different. Canelo had more energy, and had much more of a warrior's mentality going into the GGG rematch. He landed a lot more power shots and he was just generally outworking GGG, while GGG was loading up the jab keeping his energy expenditure to a minimum. If GGG wanted to win this fight, what he needed to do was step in and fight Canelo toe to toe on the inside. After all, that's what he wanted Canelo to do in the first fight. If GGG really wanted to win, at least in spurts he should have gone in the peek-a-boo blocking stance, wait for Canelo to throw, then shift his upper body, step in, and get in a big clean hook to the body or right across the chin. Instead GGG stayed on the outside and did not wish to engage in a toe-to-toe war with Canelo. You have to know going into a rematch that you dare your opponent to come at you, that it's going to be hard for you to win while backing away.

Canelo of course has that in his repertoire. That's exactly what he did to Amir Khan. He took his time, gave away a few rounds to get Khan's timing, then crushed Khan in a vice.

What does the location of the fight have to do with how good you are P4P. By that I mean, "how good you are as a fighter". Referees / judges have zero to do with how good you are P4P as a fighter, when you are comparing a fighter's skills or performances which is what I'm trying to do.

Are you blind?

There's a lot more things that Canelo is better at Usyk then than chin and power. It's not just chin, but it's defense, and being able to make your opponent miss with upper body and head movement, something that is non-existent with Usyk. (he doesn't seem to need it to be effective due to his size and posture, but that's still part of what goes into being a better P4P fighter)

You're concerned primarily with stats, with judges scorecards, with KO percentages, with location of fights, with referees while I'm concerend with looking at the actual fighter himself and what he does better than someone else.

There's a distinct difference between what I'm looking at when it comes to P4P and what you are looking at. I'm comparing skills, what a fighter does better than another fighter, not the kind of BS you are talking about which is not relevant when it comes to who is a better P4P fighter!

 

Then why is it that you "liked" his post. You obviously see things different than Grinder and recognize that Canelo is the better counter puncher, since you point out that's what he does. At least you BCS8 do occasionally talk up what Canelo does well because you recognize talent.

That's got a lot to do with his size as a physically imposing figure and less to do with what he does.

No one's denying how dangerous and tough Usyk is. He is a very physically imposing figure who eventually imposes his will on you and beats you down. I get that, and I'm not denying how effective Usyk is. But he's still a work-in-progress, he's more of a work in progress than Canelo. As far as Usyk getting better and better as the fight goes on, that has a lot to do with how he conserves his energy through his basic straight up fight style. Canelo is constantly moving his upper body, moving his head to avoid punches, countering, dipping down and landing body shots, etc. Vs Usyk who just stands straight up and trades punches. Canelo can land the kind of punches that Usyk can only dream of throwing. That's one of the many things that makes Canelo better P4P.

It's not about having the same boxing brain. Canelo is a much more versatile fighter than Usyk, but he's more capable of making quick movements than Usyk. Usyk does have relatively fast hands, but Canelo has some of the fastest hands in the sport. On the other side, Usyk's defense isn't as tight as Canelo. He's more vulnerable to body shots because he's a bigger target. If he ever met an inside fighter who can duck down and work the body, he could be in trouble. Whereas Canelo wouldn't have as much of a problem fighting somebody with that kind of style.

 

I've watched several of Usyk's fights, but I haven't watched all his fights. However what I want to do is go back and watch some of the ones I haven't seen and re-watch some of the ones I have seen. But before I do that I am asking Usyk fans to point out stuff that you observe from him that makes him a great fighter. You know the little things, particularly what he does better than Canelo P4P since both are high on the P4P charts. Some posters have done that here, and when I have more information about what he does well, then I can look for that stuff when I study the footage. Get it?

 

We know you think Canelo gets favorable judging, and as far as diva mentality, no one had more of a diva mentality than GGG and Abel Sanchez. However neither of those factors has anything to do with how good each fighter is in the ring and what each fighter is capable of doing in the ring. For all intents and purposes, whining about the judges and having a diva mentality has no relevance to this topic. I'm not stopping you from crying about your losses and how the judges were so unfair to GGG. That's a very diva thing to do, but that's neither here or there as this topic is about comparing skills and in-ring performance so we can rank each fighter P4P. What this topic accomplished is that it made it clear that many Usyk fans and many GGG fans base their P4P lists on stuff other than how a fighter fights in the ring and how he performs. For you and many others like Grinder or Mitch87, P4P seems to be about other stuff. That's what this topic is proving, that many are unwilling to limit P4P to one's skills and in-ring performance, so there are P4P lists that aren't about how good fighters really are. With anything but that as the criteria, you don't have a real P4P list, it's just a list of who you like better based on stuff you can't even prove. What I'm trying to bring it back to what P4P is really supposed to be about, what kind of a fighter you are right now, which is based on nothing outside the ring, strictly what you can do in a squared circle and how you perform. You shouldn't be basing your P4P list anything other than that, and if you do it's a weak argument.

There's more to conserving energy then how many punches you throw. For many fighters, using upper body movement is more taxing on the body than throwing punches one after another beacause it works more body parts and muscle groups. The angles that Canelo can get leverage from Usyk can only dream of. Also using upper body movement requires more skill and more high level ring IQ, both of which are factors in terms of comparing fighters P4P.

Usyk doesn't have the quick reflex movements, he isn't capable of avoiding punches as skillfully as Canelo. They are comparable in terms of speed when it comes to jabs and straights, but when it comes to the speed of uppercuts, hooks, body shots and the timing and rhythm involved and putting those kinds of punches together Canelo is on a whole nother level than Usyk.