How long can Haymon realistically hold out?

It wouldn’t have been lower than 147 and no one butchered De La Hoya at welter. Those 2 would have always had close fights for me. True greats.

 

Floyd was always better and sharper than him. You saw what Mosley did to him in the first fight and Floyd was faster, sharper and better skilled than Mosley. Oscar was good in fact very good but Floyd was better.

 

You're making an apples-to-oranges argument. That is, Spence is not the Oscar to Crawford's Mayweather. Spence hasn't done anything that Oscar did to validate himself as the A-side against a fighter as accomplished as Crawford.

Spence has no Olympic medal. He does not move the needle with females and casuals like Oscar did. He hasn't fought any legends (Chavez and Whitaker). The peers he has beaten—Danny Garcia, Porter, and Ugas—did not pose the same threat that Quartey, Trinidad, Mosley, and Vargas did when Oscar fought them. Spence also hasn't attempted to beat a bigger badass like Oscar did in challenging Hopkins. GGG's willingness to fight Kell Brook leads me to believe he'd have done the same for Spence...if, BIG IF, Spence wanted it.

If fighting in AT&T Stadium is the biggest lever that Spence brings to the negotiating table, Crawford isn't out of bounds to ask for nothing less than a 50/50 split.

p.s. if Vergil Ortiz turns out to be the badass that many think he is, I predict he'll easily surpass Spence's AT&T Stadium.

 

Ortiz is not a bad ass and in Texas Spence and others know how he cried. Enough said on that. Spence is moving up in weight to pursue more glory including the master Lil G in Canelo. Spence wants Crawford but can’t force him to sign the contract. All Spence has done is beat the best Welterweights of his era at their peak something Bud has not done and frankly will never do.

 

I'm curious, when/why did Ortiz cry? Sounds like you know more than I do about that. I'd love to hear more though.

What greater glory do you speak of for Spence? He's days away from his 33rd birthday and he fights about once a year. Assuming the fight with Thurman takes place at 154, he'll probably fight once in 2023. Jermell's presence at 154, their friendship, and their common trainer in Derrick James make it difficult to envision Spence doing anything meaningful at 154 anytime soon.

I doubt Canelo will fight Spence anytime soon. Right or wrong, Canelo will probably say that Spence has to "earn" the right to fight him.

Spence beat Garcia and Porter. Crawford also beat Porter, but more convincingly. I'm sure Crawford would beat Garcia and/or Ugas if Haymon gave his blessing for those fights to happen. Bottomline is that Haymon is blocking the fight that both fighters want and think they can win.

 

It was in the past on the amateur circuit.

Spence moving up and fighting at 154 pounds does not mean that weight is his ultimate destination.

Canelo has already said he is agreeable to a Spence fight. Why not ? Especially when the fight pushes the needle. They can sell out AT & T stadium in Texas or T Mobile centre in Vegas with 1 Million PPV buys.

 

Exactly. It does not matter how many subscribers showtime have if the network has decided to stop spending on boxing.

Showtime will still look at huge fights such as Davies v Garcia (still ppv though) but the days of guaranteed big purses to fight mediocre opposition are gone.

PBC fighters for far too long were earning ridiculous purses for very little effort.

 

The strategy failed as you cannot build ppv stars when they are fighting poor opposition. I really don't understand how they thought fighters beating out matched opponents would turn them into box office stars?

 

Sad but true

 

Vergil Ortiz cried as a kid. Even Spence chalked it up to Vergil being a kid, once he responded. A fight between those two Texans makes better sense for AT&T than the proposed fight at 154 between Spence and Once Upon A Time Thurman does anywhere. This gives Spence a chance to put a "crybaby kid" in his place. Meanwhile, it gives Ortiz a chance to live up to his hype and make Spence eat his words.

It doesn't surprise me to hear that Canelo is open to fighting Spence. He assumes he'll have advantages in strength, size, and experience. Plus he won't have to contend with a slippery fighter ala Lara or Trout. I agree that they could fill up AT&T. However, make no mistake about it, Canelo's involvement will be the reason it has a chance to sell out such a large venue. Come to think about it, "40,000 to 50,000" fans would probably pay to watch Canelo kick either one of our @55es in AT&T Stadium.

 

First of all Spence on his own brings between 40,000 -50,000 to AT & T and with Canelo will sell out the stadium. He does a solid 350,000 PPV buys and with a proven PPV star in Canelo the TEAM( Together Everyone Achieves More) is in place.

Spence is going to have advantages against Canelo in fundamental skills set. The fights against Mayweather and Bivol should give you or be it Spence will be even more aggressive with the hombre across the border with red hair.

As for Vergil I don’t know why you are so keen to get him beat and destroyed. There is a reason he is not really asking for it because he and his team including his promoter knows how it will end. Spence does not want to bully the kid.

 

The sooner Haymon is out of boxing, the better for the sport.

 

You really won't give up on worshiping Spence for "selling" 40,000 tickets for a fight in AT&T Stadium, will you? I already pointed out, with numbers, that Spence is not as marketable as you think he is. To talk about Spence like he's the second coming of Sugar Ray Leonard. You even went as far as suggesting he has the same negotiation leverage with Crawford that De La Hoya had with Mayweather.

I like your TEAM message. However, it'd be more honest of you to acknowledge that Canelo could have anyone on his TEAM, even you or I, and he'd still sell more than Spence has in AT&T Stadium. I haven't seen anything to indicate Spence would have a skill set advantage against Canelo. First, Brook fought Spence on even terms, for most of the fight, until Spence damaged his eye socket. Second, Spence won a close decision against the rough-and-tumble Porter. Objectively speaking, Canelo is better than both Brook and Porter.

Make no mistake, I am NOT a Canelo fan for a number of reasons: (1) his stated refusal to not fight other Mexicans, even though he came up fighting Mexicans and had no problem fighting (assaulting) a much SMALLER Mexican (Ulises Solis), (2) his shrewd scheming to fight fighters when they're not at their peak, (3) his delusions of fighting Usyk.

I think Canelo would beat Spence convincingly, especially if Spence tries to bully him. "But, but, but, Spence is a good body puncher." Well, so is Canelo. He even has body shot stoppages of championship-level fighters to prove it. Spence's best chance of beating Canelo depends on his ability to BOX a near-perfect fight. He could also win if Canelo grows old overnight.

As for Vergil, there's a reason he hasn't called out Spence. He's going about his business the right way. He's fighting for the Regular WBA title against Stanionis. IF Ortiz wins this fight, he'll be in a position to challenge Spence for the "real" WBA Title. This assumes boxing politics don't get in the way or Spence doesn't choose to fight his WBC and IBF mandatories. If Ortiz really feared Spence, as you suggest he does, he'd wait to see what happens with Crawford's WBO title defense against Alexis Rocha.

Boxing Rankings - WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO - Boxing News (*******.com)

 

Spence is moving up in weight the only reason he waited at 147 was to tax Crawford ass but the dickhead has opted out of the fight because he is a stupid businessman who fears losing.

Ortiz is not fighting Spence so stop fantasising but he may fight Boot Ennis who will hand him a beating. Enough is known locally in Texas. So stop dreaming and live in the real world. There is no reason to ruin his career especially when he can pick up a vacant belt and avoid Boots Ennis who will move up in weight at some stage to fight Spence or the Charlos. You may not realise this but the Charlos and Spence are quite fond of Ortiz as big brothers to little brother.

EJ has better fundamentals than Canelo and I am a fan of both. Size does not win fights Skills win fight. Spence has the tools to beat Canelo. It’s a fight Canelo can win as well but most importantly it sells very well and will capture the imagination of the public. The reason Canelo does not want to fight fellow Mexicans is because it does not sell as well.

 

Wow! Tell me how you really feel about Crawford, LOL! I already told you why Ortiz isn't fighting Spence...he is fighting Stanionis for the Regualr WBA belt, with the winner in line to fight Spence. That said, Spence may move up before Vergil has a chance to challenge him.

Enlighten the rest of us, please. What's known locally in Texas? Do you know something the rest of us don't or are you just hellbent on defending Spence's honor against anyone whose opinion of him differs from yours? Spence brings up Ortiz crying as a kid and you expect me to believe he's fond of him.

We agree on one thing, skills win fights. Based on their respective careers, I think Canelo is more skilled than Spence. Should they meet, I expect Canelo's experiences at 160, 168, and 175 will enable him to take anything Spence can dish out. Unless Spence can outbox Canelo, the outcome will come down to which fighter's ability to "take as well as they give." My money's on Canelo.

The reason Canelo doesn't fight Mexicans is that he's not sure he can beat Zurdo, Benavidez isn't a gimme and Jaime Munguia is all risk/no reward (Canelo would abuse him).