It's not a waste of time. Wilder was the WBC champ. Those were the WBC champs and contenders he faced. IF Wilder held the WBA belt in the 1980s, he'd fight the WBA contenders like the other WBA beltholders did. I just grabbed an old issue of Boxing Illustrated. The April 1980 WBA ratings, just after Weaver knocked out Tate, were: 1. Gerrie Coetzee (22-1) - He'd KO Korinicki that month and get stopped by Weaver in October 2. John Tate (20-1) - He'd get stopped by the unrated Berbick in June and wouldn't be a factor ever again. 3. Bernardo Mercado (25-2) - He'd get stopped by Leon Spinks in October and wouldn't be a factor ever again. 4. Gerry Cooney (22-0) - He'd fight Jimmy Young in May. 5. Mike Koranicki (22-5-2) - He'd lose in one to Coetzee that month. That was basically it for him. 6. Leon Spinks (8-2-2) - He's coming off a draw with Eddie Lopez in March. He'd fight 14-6-2 Kevin Isaac next. 7. Lorenzo Zanon (25-5-2) He got stopped by Holmes in his last fight. His career was over. 8. Earnie Shavers (59-9-2) - He lost to Mercado in March and would lose to Cobb in August and wouldn't be a factor again. 9. Leroy Jones (24-1-1) - Lost to Holmes a few weeks earlier. Fought once more two years later and retired. 10. Jimmy Abbott (16-1) - He'd lose or tie in his next five fights including a loss to Koranicki. That's the WBA top 10 Wilder would be looking at in April 1980. Not exactly stellar. Lots of guys on the way out. I think some of you guys weren't around then. It wasn't highly regarded collection of fighters most of the decade. Cooney, coming off the Dino Denis fight, was viewed as the SAVIOR in 1980.
The 80's had a lot of talent ruined by drug abuse. Tyson, Homes, Holyfield, Thomas, Witherspoon, Dokes, Cooney, Bruno, Coetzee, Tubbs, Smith, and many year two guys not named like Tate, Berbick, Page, etc ... Wilder would like have a lot more losses on his resume but might have been a champion only to lose his belt in 1-2 title defenses as cherry picking is more of a modern thing.
I was there back in the day, and was pretty damn impressed with Weaver nearly unseating indubitably prime Holmes, then knocking the crap out of both Tate and Coetzee. I honestly don't think Deontay could have made it to the final bell against Weaver, but that's just me. Tillis just ran, ran, ran, barely fought. That's not Weaver's fault. I rank that fight with the Bonehugger/Tyson fight, one was scared to death and fought like it, the other was mostly very frustrated and ugly about it. I don't see either Wilder or Fury getting past Witherspoon. Really. Neither could have taken that overhand right for long, and neither is exactly a defensive wizard.
Why use the WBA ratings in a down year? Use ring magazine. Wilder is no sure thing to beat Cooney, Tate, or Coetze and would not be highly rated mid way in his career.
I did not hold these guys in any high regard at the time. Tubbs, Page…those guys made me sick. But they had more talent and substance. I just think Stiverne and Arreola etc were worse. Because they were. There was nothing sophisticated about Wilder. He knocked those guys out. But so would the 1980s guys.
Great post. I recall that during the 80s, nobody seemed to duck anyone. So many great fights, almost weekly !
He'd be another B side. He'd win some and lose some just like the others. Page or Witherspoon on a good night could well trump him and he'd always be a chance of gassing out with anyone that could push him for a handful of rounds. Furey's no puncher and it's entirely probable guys like Weaver could put him down. Even a thug like Bonecrusher is conceivably dangerous, the key is getting in first. Wilder would get some wins tho, that right hand would find some of them. He might even string a few together but it wouldn't go too long. I'm still far from sold on his durability after getting pumped twice by Furey who is certainly no banger even if he did punch with better intentions at times against Wilder.
You are recalling with rose-colored glasses. Holmes didn't fight Tate, Dokes, Coetzee, Page, Thomas, Tubbs ... Holmes only fought two mandatories in a seven-year reign. Holmes vacated his WBC title rather than fighit his mandatory Page ... Holmes never unified. Spinks vacated the IBF title rather than fight Tucker. And the Heavyweight fight of the Decade voted by Ring was Holyfield-Dokes in 1989 (the last year of the decade). Because the 1980s didn't have GREAT heavyweight fights. What were the GREAT heavyweight fights of the 80s? They apparently happened EVERY week, according to you. Name some. Holmes-Zanon? Holmes-Jones? Page-Tubbs? Holmes-Ali? Tubbs-Witherspoon? Thomas-Berbick? Holmes-Cobb? Holmes-Rodriquez? Holmes-Scott Frank? Page-Young? Page-Bey? Holmes-Bey? Berbick-Ali? Holmes-Ledoux? Weaver-Tillis? What were the epic 1980s heavyweight battles? I think we've seen more epic battles this year than most of that entire decade had. How many 1980s heavyweight title fights saw both fighters go down a combined five times in one title fight?
Look at the guys Wilder was fighting though.. there is no place for a 40-45 year old Ray Austin getting somebody a shot at the title in the 1980s. if you beat a guy like Stiverne to become champion, what exactly is that championship worth? In what world did he represent the best out there? At least Tates title was worth Gerrie Coetzee who knocked out Leon Spinks. So Wilder was that bit further away from being the best in the world than the 80s guys all were. Antony Joshua didn’t do any better by beating Charles Martin. But by the time he fought Parker you could at least say AJ had somewhat of a claim to being closer to the best among the active heavyweights around them. Once Fury came back, and was winning again, the linear claim made him the guy to beat for recognition. So was Wilder ever really a champion? Not in my book.
Wilder floored the undefeated RING champion Fury twice and successfully defended his WBC title for the eighth time against him with a draw ... And Wilder made the 11th defense of HIS WBC title against Fury in their REMATCH a little over a year later. When did John Tate, Mike Weaver, Michael Dokes, Gerrie Coetzee, Pinklon Thomas, Greg Page, Trevor Berbick, Tim Witherpsoon, Bonecrusher Smith .... or any of them floor the World Champ Larry Holmes TWICE and successfully defend their Heavyweight titles against him EVEN ONCE ... let alone defend their belts against him twice? So how close did they actually get? I'd say a two-knockdown successful defense against the Lineal champ is better than not fighting him at all. Hell, Tate, Weaver, Dokes, Coetzee, Thomas, Page, Berbick, Witherspoon and Smith didn't even make five successful defenses COMBINED. Wilder made twice as many WBC title defenses during his five-year reign than all those limited heavyweight champions in the 1980s combined. Wilder whips all those guys. None of them could string two wins together over another guy. It was a revolving door. Wilder would've dominated them like he dominated everyone before Fury. Wilder only lost to the best guy in the sport. That's it. He knocked out everyone else. HE didn't get KOed twice by Mark Wills. Or struggle to draw with Ossie Ocasio. Or lose to Marvis Frazier.
No they couldn’t win more than two 50-50 fights at world level. Like most contenders can’t. That’s why they were not proper world champions either. But who was Wilders 50-50 fight at world level? Did he win it? it’s only a championship because the WBC said it was. But it was based on zip. It’s a run of unbeaten fights at fringe level in reality. This is absolutely true. 100%. The 80s WBA claimants were often being crowned for winning their first competitive match or an Eliminator worthy bout…then lost their next match. But in his reign, Wilder was not even winning fights like that. He was matched to win. Those guys were not offering 50-50. He might beat one or two. I cannot afford much certainty to him doing better than that.
That’s right. Wilder was only really a dangerous contender. I think he earned well. He did good out of the sport. Same as all those 80s belt holders were also contenders. But none of those guys did so well.
