Was known as the greatest? Was it say halfway through his career where people were calling it him? Or before that? After his career? If so, how long after? Also, who was known as the greatest prior to Ray?
IMO,as the years have gone by, it seems, without argument, that he clearly was the all time Greatest. Lost to MW Lamotta in the early 40's, giving up 16 pounds. Fought him again 20 days later, and basically ran the table for a one sided UD, with the same weight difference. Was 85-0 as an amateur (some dispute this) Ok, if there was A loss in there, who gives a rat's behind. A draw with Basora in the mid-late forties which he avenged with a KO. That would make him after the St. Valentine's Day massacre (after starting his amateur/pro career): 216-1-1!!! Sixteen fights a year over 14 years??? Eras!!! Everyone has a 'bad' night but Ray didn't appear to. Let Ray Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Duran, Mayweather, etc., fight almost 16 fights a year for 14 years and look at what their record would have been! After a semi-retirement came back as a middle which is where many of his late losses occurred. No surprise there, he was late 30's with his best years behind him. Still had magic in the late 50's; the all time great Left hook on Gene! Other great moments. Fought into the mid-60's as a 40+ something. None of the modern fighters could comply such a record given that many fights! Never knocked out (same the Maxim anamoly). I repeat, let the modern boys fight once a month, in Sugar's professional career for 11 months, and then look at what their record would have been. Eras. What if Sugar had hit prime in the 70's or 80's or later? My gosh. Clearly THE Greatest Fighter to ever step into the ring!
And Willie Pep !! He's in the conversation just after SRR and a couple others ... He averaged a pro fight every 6 weeks for 26 years !!! Point being, I 100% agree with you that the "old school" fighters are just way more hard core.. and it's not even close
This is a good question. I doubt it was when he was in his welterweight prime (when ironically he was probably at his best). I think it would have been towards the end of his middleweight reigns when he kept coming back and winning the title (after setbacks). Although for reasons below, i think the actual move to no 1 was probably sometime around the 70s. Maybe even after his retirement as respect and knowledge of his predecessors started to die down. I think that Fitzsimmons held the consensus (or perhaps majority) crown at least until the end (or near end) of Joe Louis' reign. I do think that Louis probably outranked Robinson for quite a while, probably until say Muhammed Ali came along to challenge his heavyweight greatest status and through the 80s and even 90s when the pound for pound status of a heavyweight suffered and accordingly so did louis' claim. I think this is where Sugar Rays claims started growing massively. And they were particularly helped by him being the original Sugar Ray when the "imitator" was cleaning house and it became easy for casual and newer fans to imagine a Ray Leonard who was faster, stronger, tougher and generally better. It certainly didnt help that the film of Robinson was impressive and he also looked like a miniature version of Muhammed Ali but with better fundamental skills. On a pound for pound level, many could think of him as faster, stronger and maybe even tougher or at least as tough version of Muhammed Ali. I think as those two fighters grew in stature, it improved Robinson's all time status and set him apart from the rest. It is not until the recent internet age where the Pollack books brought Fitzsimmons back into vogue and Greb's incredible feats started getting the credit it deserved that he has started to come back to the field a bit,(a few others like Charles or Langford also garnered a lot of support) but i think he still stands clear as the consensus/majority no 1 pick even though i personally dont have him as number one.
