How long until Ward's resume eclipses Calzaghe's?

All Ward has to do is kep winning...He's getting close to overtaking Calz IMHO. The only thing that Calz holds over Ward now is defenses and thats about it! Ward resume is deeper than Calz as well.

 

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Calzaghe beat 3 undefeated fighters who had or went on to claim a SMW title.

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1. Someone tell me which top undefeated fighters Ward has beaten?
2. Tell me which top undefeated world champs Ward has fought?


Lets read the answers
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Andre Ward............VS.............Joe Calzaghe
Froch.....................................Kessler

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(Kessler beat Froch)
Kessler...................................Eubank

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Dawson..................................Lacy (Lacy a proven SMW and winner of 5 SMW title fights. Dawson no pedigree at all at SMW)

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Abraham.................................Mitchell (Mitchell a 2 time SMW champ who had never been clearly beaten, only lost by debateable SD in Germany to Ottke, had KOd long time SMW champ Liles, beaten a future SMW champ twice, compared to AA who had done nothing at SMW)

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Bika.......................................Brewer (Bikas best win became Manfredo, Brewer had beaten H Graham and was a SMW champ)

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(Bika was a Calzaghe left over at that time and had been out of the ring bar less than a round for a while)
Green.....................................Woodhall (Woodhall a SMW champ, who had beaten a reigning SMW champ, a world rated former champ, a future SMW champ and Branco a world rated SMW who became WBA LHW champ, who at SMW beat R Reid and G Johnson who when old and shot KOd Green)

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Miranda...................................Bika (Bika now a top 5 SMW had drawn with 3 time SMW champ Beyer)

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Buchanan (?????)......................Sheika

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(Sheika was coming off a win over G Johnson and was a top 10 SMW at the time)
Camou (?????)..........................Veit (Veit a SMW title holder who had a fair resume, better than at least 2 of the current top 5 SMWs)

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Then include the

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win and then the other top 10 SMWs and its clear Calzaghe is well ahead. I could have put

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ahead of Green, Camou, Miranda, Buchanon

Very clear but nobody will have a sensible answer to say otherwise, it will just be a lame Faileys losing it answer when they cant debate against

Somebody tell me how Ward has done more than that.



Nobody can counter the above or answer the questions. In fact they hide from the questions



First duck above by Rudyard

 

Again, I give Calzaghe full credit for a very good win. However, he was not the first to negate BHop's workrate. Hopkins fought in anemic fashion versus Taylor x 2 and also Jones, prior to Dawson.

He mixed in some very good performances, too, which is why Calzaghe gets the credit he does.

But Hopkins has had other awful showings, including the Taylor fights that were three years prior to Calzaghe and at his career defining weight. Just looking at those two bouts, Froch brought much more to the table against Ward than Hopkins did against Calzaghe.

But even he brought more than Dawson did against Ward, which is why I give Calzaghe more credit for Hopkins than Ward for Dawson, even though Dawson easily offers more than Hopkins these days.

 

The Dawson win wouldn't be in Calzaghe's top five and you're comparing it to the BHop win. Dawson was a drained, glass jawed zombie with no SMW pedigree. Hopkins was at a comfortable weight at home while Calzaghe moved up. If Ward beat Dawson at 175 then that would be a great win even in Oakland but at 168 the win is worth very little. Don't try and insinuate otherwise

deal:deal

 

Good post Money
It would have been a good win if it was at 175, but dont forget that Dawson isnt that great.
He lost to Pascal and some felt old Johnson beat him.

At LHW Dawson didnt fight many good prime fighters


Why does Chad Dawson get a pass for fighting shot old fighters time and time again?
Look at Dawsons recent LHW fights.

Hopkins 47
Hopkins 46
Diaconu 32
Pascal (he lost)
Johnson 40
Tarver 40
Tarver 39
Johnson 39

So why does he get a pass for this?

 

Isn't that exactly the point I made? Dawson is a superior LHW to Hopkins, but I agree his weight draining detracts from the significance of Ward's victory.

Out of curiosity, though, what are Calzaghe's best five wins?

Kessler
Hopkins
Lacy
Eubank
???

 

Because that's who was tops in the division. Every single opponent you listed as a top fiver at the point he fought them. You left off Adamek, too. And Ward, whom he not only fought at prime but also in the wrong division. A Calzaghe fan accusing another fighter of being protected is hilarious.

But anyway, this thread is about Ward, not Dawson. Ward and Calzaghe boast similar resumes, but if he keeps going strong Ward will clearly surpass Joe in the next 18 months.

 

Hard to say what his top 5 wins are
Beating undefeated champs always bumps up the win credit, so I guess Lacy and Kessler would be in there. Eubank was a top win, there is Mitchell, Reid, Woodhall, Veit, Brewer also who were all SMW title holders. Hopkins would be there as he was a champ having his best wins.

Look at this

Still nobody can counter this

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Calzaghe beat 3 undefeated fighters who had or went on to claim a SMW title.

This content is protected

1. Someone tell me which top undefeated fighters Ward has beaten?
2. Tell me which top undefeated world champs Ward has fought?


Lets read the answers
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Andre Ward............VS.............Joe Calzaghe
Froch.....................................Kessler

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(Kessler beat Froch)
Kessler...................................Eubank

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Dawson..................................Lacy (Lacy a proven SMW and winner of 5 SMW title fights. Dawson no pedigree at all at SMW)

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Abraham.................................Mitchell (Mitchell a 2 time SMW champ who had never been clearly beaten, only lost by debateable SD in Germany to Ottke, had KOd long time SMW champ Liles, beaten a future SMW champ twice, compared to AA who had done nothing at SMW)

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Bika.......................................Brewer (Bikas best win became Manfredo, Brewer had beaten H Graham and was a SMW champ)

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(Bika was a Calzaghe left over at that time and had been out of the ring bar less than a round for a while)
Green.....................................Woodhall (Woodhall a SMW champ, who had beaten a reigning SMW champ, a world rated former champ, a future SMW champ and Branco a world rated SMW who became WBA LHW champ, who at SMW beat R Reid and G Johnson who when old and shot KOd Green)

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Miranda...................................Bika (Bika now a top 5 SMW had drawn with 3 time SMW champ Beyer)

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Buchanan (?????)......................Sheika

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(Sheika was coming off a win over G Johnson and was a top 10 SMW at the time)
Camou (?????)..........................Veit (Veit a SMW title holder who had a fair resume, better than at least 2 of the current top 5 SMWs)

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Then include the

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win and then the other top 10 SMWs and its clear Calzaghe is well ahead. I could have put

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ahead of Green, Camou, Miranda, Buchanon

Very clear but nobody will have a sensible answer to say otherwise, it will just be a lame Faileys losing it answer when they cant debate against

Somebody tell me how Ward has done more than that.



Nobody can counter the above or answer the questions. In fact they hide from the questions

 

Bika is a fighter with 168 pedigree who at 168 is a better win than Dawson and also said Calzaghe was the best fighter he ever faced. Not strictly relevant to Joe's top five but relevant to the thread. Reid is a better SMW win than Dawson as is Mitchell. My bad if I misunderstood where you were coming from in your post. Also at LHW in general Bhop > Dawson. Dawson just got hold of a very, very old Bhop.

 

Fighters say lots of crazy things. Doesn't hold much sway in a legacy debate. Disagree on Mitchell versus Dawson.

And no way on Hopkins over Dawson at 175. Chad easily has accomplished more at that weight than Bernard. The only thing Bernard has is Pascal, but Dawson has the win over Hopkins plus 2X over Tarver, 2X Johnson, Diaconu and Adamek.

 

I hardly think it's fair that you just dismiss the words of someone who's been in the ring with both Calzaghe and Ward as well as other top fighters as 'crazy' that's pretty close minded and ignorant. At least Mitchell fought at 168 and held a world title there. That gives him more 168 pedigree then Dawson

Hopkins also has Tarver, Adamek's best weight is cruiser so not worth much at LHW, Glen Johnson is a glorified journeyman in the grand scheme of things. Dawson has Pascal and the win over Pavlik when most Americans thought Pavlik was the next best thing.

 

In sum, Ward's top two victories — Froch and Kessler — surpass Kessler and whomever you'd choose as Calzaghe's second-best 168 win.

I'll grant you that Calzaghe has a deeper pool of B-level contenders, but on the other hand, Ward has fought better sustained competition. This is the argument Froch makes for himself over Calzaghe as well, but Carl has too many resume flaws to make the case, imo.

If you want to say they are equal or Calzaghe is slight ahead even, I'm fine with that. I shade toward Ward because his best wins were better, but you're not off-base. It's the religious fervor of your argument that's off-putting, because frankly there's nothing Ward can do for you to admit he is more accomplished than JC.

 

I can see you are in the middle of a war with failey so i'll be brief. Many think Hopkins beat Taylor in the first one. And the 2nd was razor close. He wasn't awful by any standards. He just probably overrated Taylor's potential and played it safe. Plus, he was clearly not fighting at his best weight at the time. You saw how he looked when he jumped 2 weight classes. Coming in the ring at a solid 185+ with no excess.