How long would Cleveland Williams have lasted against Marciano?

Great points, and I agree with all of them. I think Williams gets a bit overrated. I don’t think he sucked or anything, but I see no reason he would beat virtually any ATG fighter in the modern era.

With that said, at the start of that round, Liston literally walks into Williams, and Williams opts to stay there basically til he gets hurt and stopped.

I don’t think Liston had to show his versatility in this one, although I agree he had it.

 

Remind me again what 6'2 80 inch 200+ pounds world class prime Heavyweights Marciano beat ?

I think the question should be reversed "how long would Marciano have lasted against Williams"

I was being a bit sarcastic with my last comment but seriously people do have alot of faith in Marciano against bigger elite Heavyweights in fantasy match ups when he was having enough trouble vs Light Heavyweights.

I'm not convinced of Marciano's H2H ability vs world class bigger Heavyweights.

 

Agreed,,although it didn't go long he went toe to toe with Sonny and inflicted some big time punishment on Liston. Cleveland would be the biggest puncher Rocky ever faced and he certainly possesses the power to hurt and drop Marciano. Rocky could very well grind out a stoppage but it'd be a fight where he suffers a lot of punishment in a tussle that could be a career shortener .

 

This is ****ing stupid

you can talk about size all you want, but objectively Marciano beat opponents who were notably better than Cleveland Williams, and Williams NEVER beat ANYONE on Marciano's level. Moore beat plenty of men as big as Williams whom were all muscular, tall, etc, before Marciano could even get his hands on them, and Cleveland Williams will get exposed in the same way that Moore's victims did against Moore alone. Much less Marciano. Those light heavyweights he struggled against were the 2 greatest light heavyweights ever, and heavyweight champs dont exactly have the best track record vs light heavies anyway. Dempsey vs Tunney. Corbett vs Fitzsimmons. Hart vs Burns. Spinks vs Holmes. In more recent times, the cruiserweights have been showing up the super heavyweights.

A goat light heavyweight is only slightly behind a goat heavyweight in terms of h2h ability. You are overrating size here. Marciano defeated 4 world class champions and brutalized anyone even slightly beneath that level. I'm not even convinced that Williams would get passed Moore. I would understand your concern if it was someone actually good, like Liston or Foreman. But Williams is not on his level.

 

Why do discussions about Williams drag on this much?
The Rocky dilemma is how he would perform against quality 200+ pounders. Emphasis on "quality".

He goes 4 rounds before the 3rd knockdown keeps him on the canvas.
The question is if he can at least drop Marciano before he gets finished, which is a possible scenario.

 

I highly highly doubt Marciano needs a mere 4 rounds to dispatch of Williams when Liston needed 3 and 2 respectively and Marciano needed 9 to dispatch of Cockell, and the fact that he had very very few early KOs against rated opposition.

 

Cockell was a wild exception of Marciano genuinely not giving a single care during training camp and Cockell coming in with his homework fully prepared, it isnt a fight he should be judged off of

Marciano has 13 first round knockouts, some of the most of any heavyweight champ, he could start explosively. Depends on what sort of shape Williams comes in at, he could be hurt and Marciano was a fantastic finisher. The slower starting Marciano of 54-55 would need the mid rounds to stop Williams, but that brutal explosive 51-53 Marciano could very much finish Williams in the early rounds.

 

I take into consideration the 6th round KO over Layne who wasn't yet knocked out, and the fact that Williams went 3-4 rounds against Satterfield, Ali and Liston.
He also came out fast against Louis and had very high work rate for the first 3 rounds, I don't think Williams would survive that kind of punishment.
But if he can make Marciano a bit more weary with his power, he can hold him off for seven until the body punching grinds him down.

 

Williams was shot (literally) against Ali, and a green last second substitute against Satterfield. Only time he was knocked out in his prime was by Liston. Marciano is clearly no Liston, in terms of skill, style, durability, nor power.

That's the thing. Marciano had a very high work rate against Louis because he was facing a washed up has-been, and didn't really have much to worry about in terms of return fire. That would not be the case with Williams.

 

He was;
NOT PRIME. END OF.

 

The amount of people who still bring up the Satterfield loss like it has any relevance blows my mind.

It’s like people bringing up the first Lowry bout except Marciano was actually more experienced there than Williams was against Satterfield.

 

H

He was, end of the story...I know it hurts that Williams was knocked by LHW before Liston and that it hurts your heroes reputation but it is true.
Someone who has 35 pro fights is in prime, and losing against man 1 weight class lower than yourself who was also lighter 20 pounds and shorter 2 inches with questionable skills and chin is no great achievement.

 

Liston durability?
The guy who was knocked out by LHW, by Ali and quit because he can not take punishment?
Liston was anything but durable especially compared to Marciano.
And about the power, I dont think so because Marciano had higher KO ratio plus he had greater one punch KO power.

 

The issue is that Liston is the only proven puncher he faced in the window you call his prime, and he just didn't cut it.
Even if he was green against Satterfield you'd expect a solid chinned 210 pounder to last a little longer. Marciano himself was green up until facing Walcott but he held up well against the contenders that were thrown at him.

Marciano had high work rate regardless of who he was facing though, he came out just as aggressively against Layne and Mathews as he did against Louis.
His issue in taking out Savold, Cokell and Lastarza leaves a lot to be desired but that's more for match ups against boxers or truly good big men like Louis, Liston and Foreman.
Whenever Williams faced someone with comparable power to Marciano, he fell short. I just don't see how I can give him a chance to go ten rounds against an animal that doesn't stop throwing.

 

Williams is not one of my heroes,I'm 76years old and do not ,"have heroes".

According to you;
35 fight Sam Langford was in his prime when he fought George Elbows McFadden in1904 for which fight Sam weighed under 150lbs!
According to you;
35 fight Archie Moore was prime in1938 when he beat Johnny Sikes,Moore scaled 160lbs for that fight! Moore won his world title inDecember1952 14 years later ,that's a pretty long prime!
According to you 35 fight Rocky Marciano was prime when he was taken the distance by Willis Applegate in1951!
According to you;
35 fight Harry Greb was prime when he beat Jack Lavin in March 1915,then won his world title in August 1923,more than 8 years later!
Congratulations!
You are without doubt the worst poster we now have. Beyond Stupid!