How long would Jeffries have held onto the title, if he wanted to continue

Another possible scenario, is that the fight between Jeffries and Johnson does not resolve the issue.

There might have been two fights or even a trilogy!

In the end however, Johnson was probably always going to outlast Jeffries, as a force in the division!

 

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Jeffries was a younger fighter defending against older men,had he stayed around the reverse would have been the case.Possibly at 32/33 Jeffries would have grown complacent and not trained so assiduously
we began to see that against Munroe when he came into the ring carrying some surplus weight.
Ignoring the challenges of the black contenders, [who also happened to be the most dangerous ones ,]would have prolonged his reign,then only complacency and a loss of drive would have been dangers to his crown.

 

Though Jeffries tenure as champion, Jack Johnson lost or drew lesser men several times.

1899: Klondike TKO loss

1901: Haynes and Sanlan draws.
Choynski slight past his best Ko's Johnson early.
Draws with Stift.
Draws with Mexican Pete Everett past his best, a fighter Jeffries destroyed in 3 rounds.
Lost on points and Drew to Hank Griffin, a fighter Jeffries KO'd when Griffin was in his prime and toyed with for 4 rounds as champion.

1902: Draws with Griffin again.

1903-1904, Johnson beats a teenaged ( 18-19 year old ) Sam McVey, in mostly boring fights.

1905: Lost on points to Marvin Hart. Struggles at times vs Ferguson, winning via DQ. I

IMO Hart earned his title shot. He beat Choysnki who Johnson lost too, and Stift who Johnson drew with.

The logical conclusion is Johnson would have little chance of beating Jeffries as champion. Reports and testimonials say Jeffries was improving at the time he retired. Jeffries said he'd fight Hart if there was demand for it. There wasn't, the people of the times saw it as a mis-match so he retired.

Had Jeffries fought Johnson anytime before 1905, he beat him. 1906-1907 the same.

 

Some of title defenses were vs young men, and Fitz was lethal in his 30's. At the time Jeffries retired Sam Mcvey was in-active in 1905 ( He was a teenager and quit boxing losing to Martin ). Johnson had numerous looses and draws during Jeffries tenure as champion and wasn't first in line after losing to Hart.

Langford wasn't a heavyweight. He turned pro in 1902 and was 142 pounds or so when Jeffries retired. Jeannette didn't make his debut aft the very end of 1904, after Jeffries had beaten Munroe. So neither were contenders at all for Jeffries upon retirement.

So unless you thing a teenager who retired from boxing in 1905, or a guy ( Johnson ) who lost a drew a lot while Jeffries was champion ( See post #18 ) were dangerous there really weren't may top black contenders around for him to fight in 1905. Hart was the #1 guy for 1905.

 

I am sure that Jeffries would have beaten Johnson if you went back far enough, but he would not have been seen as a credible challenger before about 1903.

the question would be, whether there was a sweet spot where Johnson was the #1 contender, but had not fully developed as a fighter yet.

 

Color line or not, Tommy Burns wasn't exactly anyone's *****.

Burns was smaller, but he was pretty fast (even on those old films). He was certainly a helluva lot faster than Jeffries looked on film. And Burns could bang.

It's not like Jeffries was mowing everyone down in a round or two. Seems like, even against guys he far outweighed, he often ate a lot of punches before he finally got his engine going.

I could see Burns beating a less-than-active/aging Jeffies like Canelo beat Kovalev, maybe even stopping him.

Shouldn't count out the smaller guy who followed him. Joe Louis made that mistake with Charles.

 

Who was the best fighter Canelo stopped before he knocked out Kovalev? Amir Khan? I understand your point, I'm just looking at it from a style perspective. Tommy Burns may have been small, but he was ferocious. Fast hands, good power and tenacity can go a long way against a slow puncher who takes a while to get going.

Historically, guys like Jeffries who took a lot of shots in fights and absorbed beatings to deliver a hard punch of his own (and Jeffries was certainly known to do that) eventually fall into the trap of taking a beating and then they aren't able to come back from it in a fight. Matthew Saad Muhammad is a great example when he finally met Qawi.

The guys who follow popular champs (Burns, Willard, Tunney, Charles, Frazier, Holmes, even Fury) often get the short end of the stick from fans because they usually aren't anything like the popular guy before them. But we've seen how those guys tend to beat the popular champ who proceeded them.

Jeffries wasn't going to defend his title against McVea or Johnson. I wouldn't dismiss Burns out of hand. For some reason, he reminds me a lot of Canelo when Alvarez competes at the higher weights.

 

No, I'm Burns admirer (like how he looks on tape) but he wouldn't have beaten Jeffries. No chance, he's way too small and not defensive enough.

 

I like Burns, too. And from what I've seen of Jeffries, any number of guys could've beaten him.

You've seen Jim Corbett on film, too. Corbett was beating Jeffries over 22 rounds.

I think Burns could do fine. Hell, I think Burns would've beaten the snot out of Corbett.

 

Burns was the best caucasian heavyweight after Jeffries retired. He was a successful world heavyweight champion and had a long, winning career in his own right.

If slow, take-five-to-give-one Jeffries was only going to fight white heavyweights, there's no reason to believe the best caucasian heavyweight (who became a successful champ in his own right) after Jeffries wouldn't have stood a good chance to beat him.

Men who were considered "great" heavyweight champions don't always lose their titles to men who are considered "even greater" heavyweight champions. Usually, they just lose to someone who wants it more that night and outworks them for it.

I think there's a good chance Burns could've beaten Jeffries by 1906.

 

Johnson could be viewed as a top #1-3 contender from 1903- to 3-28-1905 ( The Hart loss ), but that's not a long time. Corbett and Fitzsimmons were far more accomplished, offered a bigger gate and were in line for re-matches.

As post #18 above shows, Johnson from 1899-1905 simply had way too many losses and draws.

Now's where it gets sticky, were the Hart and Choynski who defeated Johnson better than the teenaged Sam Mcvey Johnson beat? I would say yes, they were as these were mature men, not a teenager ( McVey, ) I would also say Choysnki and Hart were better than the raw novice in Jeannette that Johnson defeated, and Langford at age 20, 156 pounds. Jeannette, however, became competitive with Johnson toward the end of the series.

Johnson, in my opinion, was the top-ranking contender by 1908.

I also think McVey, Jeannette, and Langford got much better by 1908. When their primes came, Johnson was nowhere to be found, making it a guess as to who was #1. As it was, Johnson edged out Sam Mcvey in talks to face Burns first.

 

LOL, no historian of the times rates Burns over Corbett or thinks he would have had a shot vs Jeffries.

Corbett vs Jeffries if you read a quality round by round was about even the way we judge fights today, and Jeffries was coming on late.