How long would Jeffries have held onto the title, if he wanted to continue

That is at least within the size range where you would normally expect the smaller man to have a chance.

 

Out classing a big dub like Munroe doesn't mean anything to me.

 

At least he was honest I suppose.

If he had the wit or imagination to come up with some sort of excuse, we would still be speculating about his true motives today.

 

Ali 6'3" 212lbs . Marciano 5'10.5" 185lbs 4 1/2inches height difference 27lbs weight difference ,12inches reach difference.
Jeffries 6' 218lbs. Burns 5'7" 180lbs 5inches height difference 38lbs weight difference,2 1/2inches reach difference.
Burns was also faster than Jeffries.imo

 

I've never felt the need to speculate myself. I don't think he was afraid of Johnson ,or any man,but he was afraid of losing his title to him, or any other black man.

 

Marciano was not any smaller than men like Doug Jones, or Henry Cooper, or Floyd Patterson.

That makes him big enough to have a chance, albeit at the lower end of the viable spectrum.

I suspect that if the fight had ever happened, Jeffries would have been about 220, and Burns about 175.

Given Burns's style, this would be a big ask.

 

Yes but he could have said denied that he was drawing the color line, but questioned Johnson's credentials. He could have tried to price himself out of the fight. There are all kinds of tricks for saving face while you avoid a challenger.

 

Ali was not prime for Cooper,or Jones.
How many fights did Jeffries come in at 225lbs ? How many did Burns come in under180lbs? One of us is being honest with the weights, and the other is being"creative". ps Patterson was197lbs for the first Ali fight an inch and a half taller than Marciano with 3 inches more reach.

 

I agree, but he wasn't exactly a complete stumblebum at this stage of his career either.

A small pressure fighter could always have given him problems.

Well let's look at a most likely case scenario.

It is hard to imagine Jeffries post 1903 weighing much less than 220.

His weight would only have crept up as he fought into his 30s.

Burns weighed 175lbs when he challenged Hart for the title, so it is not a huge leap of faith to suggest that he would have been the same, for a hypothetical challenge against Jeffries.

 

I agree with almost of this. Even at age 35, when fat and retired for years Jeffries got down 227 pounds.

If Jeffries continued, he would be that much heavier, at least until his mid 30's. The other side of the coin is the boxers around from 1905-1907 were not very good, maybe he would not train as hard and could be 10 pound heavier than his average title fight weight of 220.

 

Burns weighed 180lbs for Hart,180 for O Brien,181 for Squires1,184 for Squires2.181 for Squires 3,183 for Lang.I think its safe to say that, facing a big guy like Jeffries, Burns would be around187/8lbs.
ps being straightforward I took Ali's young weight, I could have done,[as you have,] added 8lbs to his weight but in my case I would have the excuse that he actually weighed that,and more in fights.

 

Well everyone can have opinions, but no one who saw the fighters thinks Burns was better than Jeffries, including Burns himself who put him at #1, ahead of Johnson who pounded him. The people of the times concur. No, you have not seen as many fights as anyone, especially in a time when few films are left. in such times, you have to lean on those who saw them and the results.

Sure Chris Arreola could beat Fury and Joshua. Could, but it's a long shot and one that people who snicker at. When favorites in heavyweight championships lose its open because of age, or the the opponent really good. Burns used the color line and the white contenders around were a weak lot. Burns best title defense might have been Fireman Flynn. You have seen Flynn on film? He's short, and lacks skill. The best you can say is he' s game. Flynn would be out in 4 round vs Jeffries and several notches below his best opponents. Yet you can argue that's Burns best title win.

Which heavyweight were a lot better than Jeffries as champion? None. As the sun set on Corbett and Fitz, the next group up wasn't as good which is why a tiny man like Burns could be champion for a while. While I'm sure Johnson could have beaten Burns in 1906, I do not think Langford ( very young and light ) or Jeannette a novice beginner could have done so.

Jeffries could have been champion for a while until he aged.

 

It's not safe to say that. Why was Burns are such a low weight for Johnson? Just 168 pounds vs 190.

Burns was too short, and to put on excess weight to put on would only slow him down. Ali was a large man with the frame to add weight. Burns was a short man with wide hips.

 

Look. I'm not trying to argue with anyone. If the question of the thread is how long does Jeffries reign if he doesn't retire, and everyone is trying to find some all-time great who can beat him, all I'm saying is a lot of times guys who are considered "great heavyweights" at the time don't lose to people we also consider to be "great heavyweights."

Anthony Joshua lost to Andy Ruiz. Max Baer lost to Jim Braddock. Jack Sharkey lost to Primo Carnera. Floyd Patterson lost to Ingemar Johansson. Mike Tyson lost to Buster Douglas. Larry Holmes lost to Michael Spinks. The list goes on.

Tommy Burns was the next successful heavyweight champ after Jeffries. His name wasn't being mentioned. So I mentioned him. That's all I'm saying.

Chances are, someone who ISN'T considered as great as Jeffries would've been the guy to dethrone him had he continued on.

Most who we consider "GREAT heavyweight" champs aren't beaten by those we believe are "even greater" heavyweight champs.

I wish each new champ was a significantly better fighter than the last. If that was the case, each time we got a new heavyweight champion he would be better than every heavyweight champ who came before him. But that is not the case.

Jeffries was bigger than Burns, yes. But Jeffries was a lot slower than Burns. And Burns wasn't a guy who stood there and posed. He was busy. So he'd bank rounds. It's entirely possible Burns could beat him.

 

You are attempting to debate with some one who continuously addresses me in posts although he knows I have him on ignore,its like trying to converse with someone who is stone deaf. The man is an idiot.