How many does Archie Moore win vs the following ten fighters.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Oct 2, 2007.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree with this surmise. But it becomes an issue when you're in with the very best, especially the very best punchers.

    I also tend to agree with this, although I'm sure you would agree that Tarver is no ATG.

    Yes and yes, but it tends to be because of diminishing returns on training and deterioration of reflexes. It is possible for a fighter to be brain damaged and more susceptable to punches, but I don't think this was the case with Roy.

    Only in so much as a fighter might not be training as hard as he should have been due to a lack of mental commitment during his preperation, which is probably the single most common factor you'll enocunter in surprise loses.
     
    McGrain, Oct 3, 2007
    McGrain, Oct 3, 2007
    #31
  2. rydersonthestorm

    rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think it was to do with his reflexs and his mentality against johnson, before he lost to tarver he conisdered himself unbeatable and a loss like that damages any fighters confidence and i think makes him more likely to be koed. To be fair though we tend to pretty much agree with most points so far.
     
    rydersonthestorm, Oct 3, 2007
    rydersonthestorm, Oct 3, 2007
    #32
  3. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Lets compare RJJs comp to Moores black murderers row & other comp because Moores isn't much better if at all. I've compared the most comparable opponents on their respective records:

    Charles-BHOPs
    Maxim-Virgil Hill
    Harold Johnson-Tarver
    Bobo Olsen-Reggie Johnson
    Bivins-McCallum
    Burley-Trinidad
    Holman Williams - Griffin
    Valdes-Ruiz
    Cocoa Kid-Pazienza
    Marshall - Gonzalez
    Chase -Hall/Harding
    Williams-Woods/Mallinger

    As mentioned Moore lost against the best fighters he faced. The black murderers row are excellent as a group but so are RJJ, Toney BHOPs, McCallum, Tarver, Virgil Hill, Trinidad

    RJJs legacy isn't affected in the slightest for not getting rematches with Toney or RJJ. BHOPs ducked the rematch for years and he won every round against Toney whos career proceeded to take a nose dive
     
    PowerPuncher, Oct 3, 2007
    PowerPuncher, Oct 3, 2007
    #33
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    McGrain, Oct 3, 2007
    McGrain, Oct 3, 2007
    #34
  5. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Fighters do lose their chin and punch resistance with age, partly due to being easier to tag with BIG shots. See RJJs rival Michalczewski as he got ko'd by Tiozzo in his last fight

    Regardless of that its unlikely RJJ would take many of Moores shots. RJJ will land easier and Moore showed a dodgy chin in his prime
     
    PowerPuncher, Oct 3, 2007
    PowerPuncher, Oct 3, 2007
    #35
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, that's basically what I said, the easier to tag with BIG shots bit anyway.

    I can never spell this guys name, that's why I didn't put him in the Jones imagined resume.

    The KO king would be rellying upon smarts to slow the action down and bring Jones onto his punches. He was the absolute master at this. Interesting intangibles for this fight. The longer it goes the better for Moore.
     
    McGrain, Oct 3, 2007
    McGrain, Oct 3, 2007
    #36
  7. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    PowerPuncher, Oct 3, 2007
    PowerPuncher, Oct 3, 2007
    #37
  8. Manassa

    Manassa - banned

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    Harold Johnson was a fair bit better than anyone Jones faced.
     
    Manassa, Oct 3, 2007
    Manassa, Oct 3, 2007
    #38
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Peak Charles would probably beat B-Hop 10/10 what with being a natrally bigger sharp shooting combination puncher - so I'll disagree with you about "not much seperation". The win/loss diferetial makes for interesting reading though.

    Moore's series with Bivins started when Bivins was at peak and ended when Bivins was past his peak. So "pretty much shot" is stretching things a bit.

    Are you using Boxrec for Burley's record? I really am sure that Moore and Burley didn't fight twice.

    Yes both are natural welters. Yes Burley is by far the better fighter. If we're comparing Jones' competition to Moore's (as opposed to assigning credit for wins in relation to your original claim about Moore's competition) it's another one where Moore comes of well.

    I'm not getting you. You think Griffin was better than Holman Williams?

    Cocoa was coming to the end of his career for sure. But he has a decision win right before or right after the Moore fight (I forget), same year for sure. This proves he was still mixing in ATG comp, and winning, when Moore beat him. Was Paziana doing so when Jones got him?

    Who?!

    Some, of course, have him top 5.

    A bold bold claim given that the only man who made it look easy was Burley (one of thebest ever) and Charles the first time (one of the best ever).
     
    McGrain, Oct 3, 2007
    McGrain, Oct 3, 2007
    #39
  10. rydersonthestorm

    rydersonthestorm Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I fancy jones to beat him but it would be far from an easy night, i don't think most people would have an easy time with moore.
     
    rydersonthestorm, Oct 3, 2007
    rydersonthestorm, Oct 3, 2007
    #40
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Interesting stuff. Roy Jones seems a bit under rated by modern historians. Some Historians don’t see Jones as a top ten all time great at 175 pounds. I do. Those who do not point to Jones two one-punch KO losses, and his problem with substance abuse.

    Jones was not only boxing best pound for pound fighter for a while, he was one heck of a fight manager. Jones picked too many low risk average legacy reward type of fights.

    I do think Moore's competition at 160 and 175 was superior to Jones, however as you pointed out Moore was hit or miss vs the best he fought at this weight, while Jones was a winner nearly ever time until old age caught up to him.
     
    Mendoza, Oct 3, 2007
    Mendoza, Oct 3, 2007
    #41
  12. brownpimp88

    brownpimp88 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm glad most think spinks would beat him cuz IMO, he would.
     
    brownpimp88, Oct 3, 2007
    brownpimp88, Oct 3, 2007
    #42
  13. C. M. Clay II

    C. M. Clay II Manassah's finest! Full Member

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    I think Charles and Jones would beat him. Spinks would be 50/50. Other than that he beats the rest.:good
     
    C. M. Clay II, Oct 3, 2007
    C. M. Clay II, Oct 3, 2007
    #43
  14. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    cant belive you guys dont give Loughran much of a chance. Loughran has speed and a hard chin over Archie, Tommy is going to be a HARD man to catch. I make that fight 50 50 about. Loughran had more than a jab and speed. He was good at countering, was a great inside fighter as he show vs Walker, he was as close to Gene Tunney as one man can be imo.
     
    Dempsey1238, Oct 3, 2007
    Dempsey1238, Oct 3, 2007
    #44
  15. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    1. Yes I'd pick Charles, but 10 out of 10? They're both great fighters (the same size - BHOPs started at 175, Charles started at 160). THE DIFFERENCE - RJJ won Moore lost 3times

    2. Bivins started his bad losing streak before Moore beat him. Before that he was on a massive winnign streak. Doesn't that indicate he got Bivins at the right time?

    3. OOPS my mistake

    4. Maybe he is the better fighter, I find the thought of RJJ losing to any welter hard to fathom. SRR been an exception and I'd still pick RJJ

    5. No, I'm saying hes good comp

    6. It was Cocoas 7th loss in 12 months.

    7. Shorty Hogue for 1

    8. Better than SRR, Charles, Grebb, Armstrong, SRL? He shouldn't be ahead of Marciano - they both weighed the same.

    9. Well the similarly sized and styled Patterson beat Moore very comprehensively. There wasn't any fighter quite like RJJ - no one else beat the similar Toney that emphatically either.
     
    PowerPuncher, Oct 3, 2007
    PowerPuncher, Oct 3, 2007
    #45
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