How many fighters would blow Frazier out?

A. Notice Ali's first fight with frazier was in '71 and the last was in '75, whereas Norton's first was in '73 and the last was in '76. Further, Ali was, on average, lighter and trimmer for his fights with Frazier. He was virtually shot after the third Frazier fight, which is when Norton had his arguable win in their third fight. And Norton was in his prime for all three Ali fights, while Frazier was over the hill for their two rematches.

Watch the first round of Quarry-Norton again. Norton certainly looks shaken to me, I think around the two-minute mark. Moreso than Frazier ever was.

You're missing the point here. Let me illustrate:
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Here are all of Norton's fights against opponents who were ranked at the time:
Ali(three times)
Foreman
Quarry
Bobick
Zanon
Young
Holmes
Shavers
LeDoux
Cobb
Cooney
This adds up to 13 fights against ranked opponents in Norton's 50-fight career.
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Now, here are all of Frazier's fights against opponents who were ranked at the time:
Bonavena(twice)
Machen
Chuvalo
Mathis
Ramos
Quarry(twice)
Ellis
Foster
Ali(three times)
Foreman(twice)
Bugner
That makes 16 fights against currently-ranked opponents in his 37-fight career.
-------------------------------------------------------------------43% of Frazier's total fights were against currently-ranked opposition, compared with only 26% of Norton's. What's more, after his first 11 fights, even Frazier's off-fights that weren't againts contenders were still against respected gatekeepers and never against walk-over opposition, unlike Norton, who was still fighting guys with records like 8-15-1, 7-6-1, and 9-20-2 when he had over two dozen fights. Norton may have had more fights than Frazier did, but Frazier fought more ranked opponents and a much, much higher concentrated quality of opposition.

Norton was decked in the first round of that match before eventually going down for the count in the eighth- was he already gassed out less than three minutes into the fight?

I was under the impression that the Mike Bruce incident was a standing-eight count, not an actual knockdown. Can you offer evidence here?

See my above points with regards to the number and concentration of quality opponents these two fighters faced. Frazier fought the much tougher consistent level of opposition from a much earlier stage in his career and was knocked down less often.

Yes, but Norton was actually decked by the likes of Aaron Eastling and Vic Brown and was knocked out by Jose Luis Garcia- this is certainly much, much worse than anything that happened to Frazier.

I also have this fight, and I disagree. At no stage did Stander buckle Frazier's knees, although he did manage to bull him around a little in the first couple rounds.

Norton fought Stander four years and six losses later than(a past-peak) Frazier did.

 

The '71 Ali was the closest thing to a peak Ali ever to be beaten. He looks impressive against Quarry, and although he had an awkward fight with Bonavena, he did close out very strongly. Moreover, as I said, Frazier's prime-past-prime status in his fights with Ali was more of a mirror image of Ali's, while Norton was a bit later than either man and was still in his prime for all three Ali fights(and Ali was semi-shot when Norton got to him for their own rubber match).
Ali-Frazier was a blood rivalry. These two men each viewed the other as his ultimate obstacle and defeating him as a central goal of his career. When they got in the ring together, it was a frenzied extravaganza and they put on some of the most intense action fights of all time. In other words, Ali was at his most focused, most determined and most aggressive when fighting Frazier. On the other hand, he viewed Norton more or less as just another opponent. Thus, the Ali Frazier fought, in addition to being collectively younger and fitter, was also a much more focused, sharper and hungrier fighter. Ali rocked Frazier more than he did Norton because Ali had a much higher punch output with far more intensity against Frazier than he did against Norton. If Ali had hit Norton as often and with as much conviction as he did Frazier, I expect he probably would've knocked him out.

Either way, Quarry was noticeably declining by the time he got to Norton(note he was 10 pounds heavier than he had been for Frazier, looking pudgy and tiring early, and went into a two-year period of inactivity after this fight).

Notice I said "ranked at the time." Garcia was not currently ranked either time he fought Norton. He was ranked for a little while between their two fights in the '70-72 time period(mainly as a result of the win over Norton), but was just another journeyman going into their first fight and was washed-up by the time of their rematch.
If we were to change the standard slightly and include everyone these guys fought who was ever ranked, then Frazier would also have Doug Jones and Ellis a second time, increasing his count to 18.

I think it's best judged at a balance- for example, the best fighters George Foreman fought were undoubtedly better than the best ones Louis fought, but Foreman's record is littered with literally dozens of knockouts over set-up opponents and includes only a handful of fights against those few exceptionally good opponents, while Louis' best opponents weren't as good as Foreman's, but Louis had several times as many fights against ranked opponents and dominated the division far longer. It's the guys who fought both extremely good top-tier opposition and a great deal of high-level opponents who I count as having the best quality of opposition, and Frazier certainly has both of those.

That wouldn't be very wise, since Quarry already annihilated Shavers in one round. And let us note that, although Young had recently beaten Foreman when he fought Norton, he would also go on shortly thereafter to lose back-to-back fights to Ossie Occasio. How's that for erratic?

I think you're putting too much emphasis on this. Frazier did have two fights with Foreman, while Norton only had one. Norton also fought Cooney and Shavers, meaning that Norton has three fights against big punchers compared with Frazier's two. And a semi-shot Frazier at least managed to go four competitive rounds with Foreman in their rematch, while a similarly-over-the-hill Norton was just plain blitzed by Shavers and Cooney.

I'm going to contest this. I consider Norton's prime to end with the Holmes fight. That gives him five fights while past it. Frazier's prime ended after the first Ali fight(note his 10-pound weight gain, inactivity, lack of his old sharpness or fire in most subsequent performances, etc.)

When a past-it Frazier mixed it with Foreman, who was much more dangerous than either Shavers or Cooney in my opinion, he still managed to hold his own for four rounds. I'm not convinced he would lose to Cooney or Shavers, even while past his prime, and if he did, I highly doubt he would be polished off in one round the way Norton was.

Holmes is my #6 all time heavyweight, Foreman #3, and Ali #1. Thus, Frazier's second fight with Foreman at least cancels out Norton's with Holmes on the "whose-opposition-was-better" scale, and Frazier fought the better Ali(Ali was collectively younger and lighter, and was extremely focused, determined and sharp for his fights with his ultimate rival, Frazier, while he was pretty lackadaisical against Norton) and a considerably greater concentration of general contenders(and most of them twice, too), so Frazier gets my clear vote here.

No trained professional fighter of any standing becomes tired to the point of being floored in less than a round.

I bow to you on this point, then. However, getting back to the larger "knockdown-count-comparison" picture, I'd like to point out that the main reason it's close is that Frazier kept getting up to suffer six knockdowns in the first Foreman fight.
He actually showed considerably more durability than Norton, who was helplessly clutching at the ropes and unable to stand without them after the third knockdown- if Frazier would simply have stayed down or gotten up completely helpless after going down the third time, he would have saved another three knockdowns, and conversely, if Norton had been more durable and kept coming back until he'd gone down six times, the knockdown count would also appear more one-sided. Norton was rendered completely helpless and unable to stand after a relatively short beating and only three knockdowns, whereas Frazier was beaten monotonously from pillar to post and floored six times, but was still standing of his own power, albeit wobbly, even when the fight was stopped.

1. Again, Frazier's second fight with Foreman makes up for a lack of a fight with Holmes in my estimation.
2. Cooney, Shavers and Young were probably better than Chuvalo or the Machen Frazier fought, but I do not believe they were better than Quarry(who blasted Shavers out in a round) or Ellis(who, although he was bombed out by Shavers, did much better against Quarry and had a better run at the elite level than Shavers, who was only able to post the occasional surprise blow-out of a contender when his puncher's chance came into play. And Cooney was completely unproven- I don't see how you can reasonably rank him above the likes of a Quarry, Ellis, or Bonavena when he never beat a top 10 fighter who was anywhere near his prime.

The Bruce fight was Frazier's second pro fight when he was 21 years old. This is much different from being decked and even knocked out by journeymen when you're 27 or 28 years old with over a dozen fights under your belt like Norton was when he was knocked down by Eastling and Brown and out by Garcia. Norton, again, had one more fight against top-notch punchers than Frazier did, and in Frazier's two fights, he certainly did better than Norton did in his three.
And as to the "just-had-more-fights" thing, again, this is misleading. As I pointed out before, although Frazier had fewer fights, he had more against name opponents than Norton did. For another telling statistic, according to boxrec's records, 29 of Frazier's 37 fights were against opponents who had won at least two thirds of their fights, in comparison with only 28 of Norton's 50 fights.

I think you're reaching on this one. It is true that Frazier was wobbled from time to time, but I don't see it against Stander.

Frazier was declining and 10 pounds overweight when he fought Stander. Stander had gone badly downhill, lost to some journeymen and bloated up to 229 pounds by the time he got to Norton. This creates quite a gap on the whole.

 

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