How many from Robinson's Ledger Could/Would've Beaten Jones Jr?

this IS far more accurate to Jones' true size & weight, months between fights and months to make weight does not make for a middle (or any other weight), get weighed in the same day and fight monthly or more like the boys who HAD to compete like that.

RJJ IS a L-HW. and I would favour the past greats over him!

 

Of course there's no evidence. There's only evidence of what did happen and anything else is supposition.

Both men went in there with a gameplan. Maxim's was sustainable and Robinson's wasn't. That's all that matters. Had Robinson fought in a lower gear who knows what would happen, the point is he didn't and what if was doing, he couldn't keep on doing.

 

Thought i remembered one of the Murderer's Row experts on here saying that Bert Lytell was also supposed to fight him on 2 different occasions

edit - [url]http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/13975-the-beast-of-stillmans-gym-part-4toledo[/url]

 

I don't doubt that's true. But Ray wasn't avoiding him so much as being a Dick about the contracts which was his mo. Besides which by the late 40's Lytell was a light heavyweight. And Ray should be welter champion for another few years. Of course he wanted Cerdan as that would bring him more money and a title. But he and Lytell would have been a hell of a fight.

 

First fight was discussed in '45 when Lytell was regularly weighing in the low 150's and SRR was fighting MW's regularly from '45 onwards. When he does it over and over against stiffer compitition to take the easier route it seems like a pattern rather than just being a dick.

 

I'm not sure I understand. Are you trying to say Ray ducked Lytell or stiff competition.

 

Little red, Armstrong was way over the hill when he fought the sugar man so what you are saying is that there were no Black fighters at welter or middle and all were either over the hill, light heavies or had athlete's foot. are you saying that all there was white guys. SRR had 25 title fights out of the 25 fights only 4 were black, makes you wonder.

 

The thing is, Robinson himself was avoided for a long time. Imo, during the war years he should have fought burley, williams and kid anywhere between welter and middle but there'd have been no belts on the line aside from the coloured or duration titles perhaps.

By the time he was champion those 3 were past their best and wouldn't have been any more credible than the guys he actually defended his titles against.

The guy who ducked all 3 whilst champion was Armstrong. 3 fighter's ducked by two of the top five boxers in history, makes you wonder just how talented those 3 guys where.

It happens throughout history though, fights don't get made because of a mixture of style issues, politics and money. I personally think Robinson would have beaten all 3, it's just a shame that him or his team weren't as confident.

 

Luf, you are right it's about the $'s. The promoters in those days were actually promoters who catered to the fan's not like today's promoters who are slaves to the tube.

 

I don't think that would be a good move for him. Too much risk with little to gain. He had to wait until his 75th fight to get the title as it were.

True. Burley was almost retired after his upset loss to Lytell in '47, Williams was in a serious career nosedive since '45 and was more focused in the MW division, while Cocoa Kid (who was even older than Holman), according to Stonehands article, was diagnosed with DP while serving in the Navy.

I'm not 100 percent sure about that. Footage of his 1st bout with José Basora could shed some light on his chances against Williams (considering Williams was reasonably successful against Basora) and maybe Burley (by one description of the fight, Basora was messing Robbie with feints and countering him - the kind of gameplan we know Burley mastered).