How many heavies in the last 25 years could beat Joe Frazier, Does it hurt ALI?

Frazier wouldn't "have to be a cruserweight" he'd be a small heavyweight, and he'd beat damn near any heavyweight of the last 20 years. He might have been vulnerable to an iron-chinned big puncher like Tua or Vitali, and he'd definitely lose to Lewis and Tyson, but he'd beat Holy, Vlad, Moorer, 50/50 on Bowe and beat any other alphabet champ like Chagaev, Peter, Ibragimov and so on.

 

I reckon Vitali probably would as well - his chin is very good and he could posibly do a Foreman on Joe. I'd have him start favourite against the others.

Prime Tyson vs Frazier would have been a thing to see. Prime Holyfield vs Tyson would be a good one too. I wouldnt like to pick either of those.

 

Corrie Sanders?? Rahman, with his shaky chin?? C'mon. atsch Holyfield, Lewis and maybe Tua I'd go with, but the rest? Doubtful.:-(

 

I think most who've seen frazier, povetkin, and chagaev would disagree. povetkin and chagaev don't have that much of a size advantage and especially povetkin doesn't have that foreman esque power to neutralize the smaller frazier's relentless powerful attack. chagaev is soo overated hopefully only by you. you reazlize that he struggled with john ruiz right? he looked allright versus a stationary huge target like valuev, but trying to find frazier would be a different ballgame. if frazier can beat ali, trust me he would beat b level guys like povetkin and chagaev

 

This thread should be closed & the opening poster killed!:bbb

atsch atsch atsch atsch atsch atsch atsch

 

The opening poster should be put in the ring with Joe. That would do it.

 

What a stupid comparison.

Generally people need to be very impressive in their own division before they think about going up.

Yeah, Adamek is in the same league as an ATG. :rofl

 

size,size,size it's an obsession with these guys.they do this basically to make a case for the klitschko's but who are these supersized heavyweights of today they are talking about? ibragimov? who started his career about 205 pounds and who the all powerful modern speciman wlad wouldn't engage with.what would wlads mindset have been if that had been frazier in front of him? or maybe they are talking about valuev.there again feather fisted chris byrd who started out his career around 168 pounds hasn't had a real problem hanging in there with the big guys,why he even has a klitschko in his win column.i mean 214 pound mike tyson and the ex cruiser evander holyfield didn't do so bad against the giants either.what modern heavyweight is faster than ali? stronger than foreman? is more explosive than tyson? has more relentless determination than holyfield or frazier? this is not anti today all a lot of people are saying is the present batch are not that good,it may change,for all we know another golden age might be round the corner.

 

No, but I'd pick Haye to beat Peter, Chagaev and Valuev. I think he has a great chance against Klitschko too.

By the way, what about Holyfield? He was a cruiser who went against some huge men.

Athletes are faster? So since boxing has improved so much, why is Floyd Patterson still the fastest heavyweight of all-time? Stronger? Jim Jeffries is widely regarded as the strongest heavyweight eveer. He would push Samuel Peter around the ring, despite the huge size disadvantage. Larger? Maybe, but that's not always the case. Look at Geore Godfrey, Max Baer, Primo Carnera, Buddy Baer and so on. These were big, strong men. And then look at the top heavyweights in recent years. Chagaev is 6'1", Povetkin is 6'2", Ruiz is 6'2", Ibragimov is 6'1", Brewster is 6'2", Rahman is 6'2", Byrd is 6'0". James Toney is one of the most accomplished heavyweights in recent years and fought at middleweight. He's only 5'10" and was grossly out of shape when he made it to the heavyweight division. The average height in the top ten right now is not as big as you'd think it is. It's only because the division was dominated by three big men in the Klitschko's and Valuev that people thought it was a division of giants. This isn't the case.

Even if it was the case that heavyweights are bgiger now, is that even a big advantage? If you can use it it is, like Lewis or either Klitschko, but they are exceptions to the rule. Then you have guys like Julius Long, MichaelGrant and so on who are poor fighters.

I agree that boxing ha evolved, but it's well before the 1970's. Boxing changed during the 20's and 30's, in my opinion. There was an actual change in the style, which hasn't happened since.

Size can be an advantage. But is that disparity enough to overcome the massive difference in skill? No.

 

rahman and sanders?atsch

 

How tall was Frazier?
5'11.5''

How many quality heavies has Frazier KOed in his whole career?
("Quality Heavy" = 200+ lbs and a career-win:loss ratio better than 3:1)
THREE (Chuvalo, Mathis, Ellis)

How many of these heavies were 6'3'' or smaller?
ALL THREE (= he never KOed a quality heavy taller than 6'3'', a similar story like with Mike Tyson)
Chuvalo 6'0'', Buster Mathis 6'3'' and overweight, Ellis 6'1''

Was Frazier blind on 1 eye?
YES

Against how many quality heavies did Frazier box?
SEVEN

Was Frazier declassed by Foreman (one of the natural heavies, who had the physique and tools to compete with modern heavies)?
YES.

I don't know how anyone can deduct from Frazier's record and Frazier's problems that Frazier could compete well with ANY of nowadays heavies.

Does anyone know why Frazier claims to this day that he has won ALL bouts with Ali? Maybe I could upgrade my opinion about Frazier.

 

By the way: In the first bout Frazier vs Muhammad Ali (where Ali lost) Frazier was 205.5 lbs.

Just because a fight with Wlad has been mentioned:
That would be Wladimir Klitschko's LIGHTEST opponent he has ever faced AND Klitschko's SMALLEST quality opponent he has ever faced.

 

Was Frazier declass by Foreman (one of the natural heavies, who had the physique and tools to compete with modern heavies)?
YES [/QUOTE] yea but he was beaten by one of your officially 200 pound classified bums in jimmy young

 

Patterson started with 160+. He is not a heavyweight in our sense. Compare Patterson with Roy Jones Jr.

I thought that was Eric Esch Butterbean.

Jim Jeffries' KO rate (fought against bums mostly)?
70% (only)

How many quality boxers did he KO who were 200+?
ZERO (Actually the one 200+ quality boxer he fought against (Jack Johnson) HE LOST against)

Phew! All modern heavies... RUN!

My god, why are old-time-fans living in such a dream bubble that it's a joy to poke around a bit.

Oh sure, of course he would, with his secret weapon called ... chloroform.

He is not. At heavyweight he hasn't achieved much so far.

Yeah, and he lost approx. 50% of his heavyweight fights. Yawn.

 

So? Foreman had 70+ fights... doesn't dimish his record too much. Nearly every boxer gets outboxed from time to time.