How many heavyweights could have put Ketchel away like Jack Johnson did?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Oct 4, 2008.


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  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Jack Johnsons dramatic demolition of Stanley Ketchel is often dismissed because of Ketchels size but how many heavyweights could actualy have done it?

    Johnson destroyed a durable middleweight who had taken heavyweight punches in literaly a few seconds with one combination.
     
    janitor, Oct 4, 2008
    janitor, Oct 4, 2008
    #1
  2. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Rocky Marciano, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Joe Frazier, Maybe Ali if he choose to blast Ketchel out instand of playing around.

    Mike Tyson, Lewis, and a few others perhaps.
     
    Dempsey1238, Oct 4, 2008
    Dempsey1238, Oct 4, 2008
    #2
  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Could anybody have done it who was not a renowned heavyweight puncher?
     
    janitor, Oct 4, 2008
    janitor, Oct 4, 2008
    #3
  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Stacks.
     
    JohnThomas1, Oct 4, 2008
    JohnThomas1, Oct 4, 2008
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  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Ali probably wouldnt do it because he did not have enough power. We could say as a working asumption that Ketchel was at least as durable as Bob Foster.

    Even sombody like Marciano or Frazier might need a couple of rounds to do it.
     
    janitor, Oct 4, 2008
    janitor, Oct 4, 2008
    #5
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Dozens of current fighters, heavyweight and under.
     
    Seamus, Oct 4, 2008
    Seamus, Oct 4, 2008
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  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    They are going to put away this iron jawed middleweight in under 15 seconds including the count?

    Lets be generous and say this is Kelly Pavlik. Who is going to do it?
     
    janitor, Oct 4, 2008
    janitor, Oct 4, 2008
    #7
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Iron jawed at 160 or even the fat 170 he rose to does not equal iron jawed vs. 210 lb'ers and up.

    It's been a long time, but I remember sparring against small heavies when I was a kid and weighed about 155. I could not believe how much harder they punched. It felt like the roof falling on my head. I will say that Johnson landed a beauty of a punch, though.
     
    Seamus, Oct 4, 2008
    Seamus, Oct 4, 2008
    #8
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree with this post.

    But it is interesting in what it indicates with regards to the sort of gears Johnson had available to him - what % to you guys speculate he was fighting Ketchel at if, when angered he literally ends the fight there and then? It speaks of serious depths of talent as well as precision and power.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #9
  10. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    David Haye, Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko, Lennox Lewis, Tommy Morrison, Razor Ruddock, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, George Foreman, Bert Cooper, Michael Moorer, David Tua, James Shith, Mike Weaver, Gerry Cooney, Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle, Sonny Liston, Archie Moore, Lionel Butler, Floyd Patterson, Ingamar Johanson, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, Max Baer, Jack Dempsey

    That's off the top of my head
     
    rekcutnevets, Oct 4, 2008
    rekcutnevets, Oct 4, 2008
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  11. punchy

    punchy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ketchel walked in trying to finish Johnson but I agree very few could have done what Johnson did especially after being knocked down himself, Johnson is underated by many but before Louis was the best heavyweight in history.
     
    punchy, Oct 4, 2008
    punchy, Oct 4, 2008
    #11
  12. Brian123

    Brian123 ESB WORLD CHAMPION Full Member

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    The fight went 12 rounds!

    Ketchel had not fought another HW, was 23, gave up 35 poundsand 4'5 inches and had fought Johnson to a draw at that point.

    If he had eased into the HW scene he could have beaten smaller greats I'm sure, of today and yesterday. Then again he was only 160 so maybe he could not bulk up at all (at least not the right way).
     
    Brian123, Oct 4, 2008
    Brian123, Oct 4, 2008
    #12
  13. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Of the great olden-timey fighters, Ketchell impresses me least with the potential transfer of his game to modern fistiana.
     
    Seamus, Oct 4, 2008
    Seamus, Oct 4, 2008
    #13
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Why, particularly?

    I would say a huge punch and iron jaw are basically a direct passage to title challanges these days. What is it about him, particularly, that makes you think he would fail?
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #14
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I dont doubt that Ketchels chin would have fallen off considerably at heavyweight but that dose not necisarily translate into his being destroyed in a matter of seconds with a single combination.

    There is quite a big leap between having an iron jaw a t middleweight and being put away in that manner.
     
    janitor, Oct 5, 2008
    janitor, Oct 5, 2008
    #15
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