How many heavyweights stand up to what 42yo Foreman took from 28yo Holyfield?

No, he didn't, not even in the rematch. He couldn't anymore. Holyfield had his first fight "starting over the hill" vs. Bowe I, at 30 yrs old.

 

Taking exactly the same shots as George did?

Only a few.

Ali beat a Foreman who was pretty much still the same guy who destroyed Frazier and Norton.

However, I’ve always felt that IF Ali took exactly the same flush shots that Frazier took in Jamaica - I’m not so sure that Ali would’ve made it out either - in fact, I don’t think he would have.

Amazing that Joe still managed to be on his feet when the fight was waved off.

I’ve also always felt that if Ali was to be ever KO’d, it wouldn’t necessarily include numerous KDs as was the case with Frazier.

Ali refused to fall like no other fighter (see round 11 of the FOTC or various periods during the Shavers fight) - a fighter who would virtually die on his feet before going down - in the cases he was felled by Cooper and Frazier, he was as hurt as he possibly could be.

That may not makes sense to some but it does to me.

 

No question IMO Foreman scores the knockout on Ali if he hit him like he hit Frazier. At least a stoppage. I also think if Ali had taken Frazier’s place in Kingston & come in similarly unprepped Foreman may well have got him.

 

Foreman was the last time Ali was ever in great shape.

 

I think he did hit Ali like he did Frazier.. or close to it. Ali took ungodly punishment in that fight. Rope a Dope is for dopes. But he did it anyway, Ali.. just wasn't in the middle of the ring..and the ropes holding him up.

 

I think the barrage Bert Cooper took at 2:06 was even more brutal than the barrage Foreman took in round 7 those uppercuts make me wince.

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Just out of curiosity I looked at Ali's weight vs Foreman and he weighed 216 pounds. I then looked at all of Ali's fights after Foreman and he always weighed over 220 pounds or above.

So you are totally correct Foreman was the last time he was in really good shape and it was the last time in Ali's career that he weighed under 220 pounds.

 

Interesting also that Ali came in about 212 1/2 lb a piece for the Frazier and Norton rematches - dancin’ weight as Ali liked to call it.

For those fights he damned near pulled off the physical appearance he had in the 1960s. Check him on the Carson show weighing in with Ken. An amazing recapture of his old self.

Given Ali’s weight for Foreman I’ve always questioned how much Ali did in fact plan to dance against George - Ali not dancing not being so much an ad hoc decision on the fly.

For mine, at that weight - (216 lb or 216 1/2 lb) it’s distribution and Ali looking somewhat more muscular in the shoulders, chest and arms - Ali did premeditate to forgo some mobility in order to punch more flat footed and purposefully.

Ali always did wood chopping for fights - but for Foreman he did a whole lot more again. Earnie Shavers believed that wood chopping enhanced his natural punch even more - and given the motions involved, it makes complete sense.

For many, the overriding observation from Zaire is that Foreman ultimately gassed out - but Ali’s power punching display during the fight is often well underrated - very selective also, every punch mattering.

Unfortunately, Foreman’s tiring (and prior rep for same) unjustly eclipses the fact that he was getting hit very hard and often from the start.

Foreman’s face certainly wasn’t notably lumping up purely due to fatigue.

 

I’d have to disagree. A huge number of punches were wasted. It was nothing like Kingston, where Foreman…actually also missed a tonne of punches. But landed hard, often & clean. There isn’t one round in Kinshasa where he put together clean, hard shots.

 

Absolutely, it's well documented. Eddie Futch himself stated it at some point.

 

**** what a fight that was!
Holyfield in his first defence trying to make a statement.
George in his first title fight since losing to Ali trying to make a statement..

Great days!

 

Mercer went down from one hook from Holyfield, so obviously he isn't remaining upright from a steaming, flush, 8+ punch combination to the jaw.

 

Sometimes a good punch is a good punch, he survived worse then a left hook from Holyfield and he’d take the arm punch combinations Holy landed a lot better then a properly thrown clean hook IMO.

 

Ross Purrity

 

I have my doubts that Foreman's own younger self would've survived it.

It's impressive for someone of any age.