How many lineal champions would you favor Alexandar Povetkin to defeat

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Apr 24, 2017.


How many lineal champions would you favor Alexandar Povetkin to defeat

  1. Less than 5

    36.8%
  2. 6-10

    26.3%
  3. 11-15

    5.3%
  4. 16-20

    21.1%
  5. 21 or more

    10.5%
  1. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    :duh:duh:duh:duh:duh

    You are truly one of the worst posters to infest this site.

    As if a fighter being "lineal" in any way mystically improves that fighters skills. :ohno Wait, I know! Marvin Hart would destroy Anthony Joshua. Because, you know, he's LINEAL and AJ is not :rolleyes:

    Herol :pipi
     
  2. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I disagree with your statement that Povetkin defeated Wach more convincingly than Wlad.

    In fact, Wlad beat Wach from pillar to post and was closer to stopping him in 8th than Povetkin was at any time.

    Jay Nady just stopped the fight because of Wach's big cut in 12th. He could've stopped Wlad-Wach in 8th if he was the referee that night and we would talk about Wlad doing better vs Wach.

    Also Wlad certainly did far better vs Chagaev and Chambers than Povetkin (both had close losses to Sasha and hadn't won a second vs Wlad). But that was another story and younger and better Wlad.
     
  3. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    u r returd of highest order for ignoring that I said chubby by canbeat a few of the weaker ones.

    i dont expect you to take your mistaken post back now.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Hart was lineal? Which Champion did he beat to win the crown?
     
  5. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    No , that would be you.

    Trying to argue Wlads Mercer >>> Lewis Mercer.

    Joke.
     
  6. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Dino needs to learn comprehension. That sentence doesn't mean what he thinks it does :rolleyes:
     
  7. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    He's on Mendoza's list; I took it at face value.

    According to Wiki he beat Jack Root for the vacant title:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Hart

    and he's listed here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lineal_boxing_world_champions

    However, unlike Herol, I'm not one of the guys that has an awful lot invested in the rather nebulous concept of linearity in the first place, so, no skin off my nose if he is or is not lineal.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Most consider Hart to be the lineal champion.
    • Jim Jeffries, who had recently retired as World Heavyweight Champion, was the referee. Before the fight, he stated that the winner of Hart-Root was entitled to the title of heavyweight champion of the world.
    • The fighters split $5,000, with the winner getting 65 percent and the loser 35 percent.
    • There was a crowd of 5,000.
    • Root, who had defeated Hart by a six-round decision in 1902, was a 3 to 1 favorite.
    • Hart was floored by a right to the jaw in the seventh round.
    • Root was knocked out by a right to the stomach in the twelfth round.
    • Lou Houseman, Root's manager, called the knockout punch "a fluke."
    • Four days after the fight, Jim Jeffries was quoted as saying: "I do not wish the public to get the idea that I am trying to make Marvin Hart the champion. I am doing nothing of the sort. It is not for me to say who shall be champion. It might be well, however, for the public to consider Hart, say, as the champion pro tem. Put him on probation. This would stir up the now slumbering army of heavyweights and result in a number of hard-fought battles which would eventually establish the right of Hart or some other man to the championship honors beyond the question of a doubt."

    Jack Root in on film, and much to my surprise he looks pretty good. I forget vs whom, but maybe I should review it to make sure it wasn't the first Hart fight. Hart as far as I know is not on film.
     
    BCS8 likes this.
  9. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    They should have stopped it in the 8th. Wach was just eating bombs and staggering around. Props to him for being incredibly tough, but that couldn't have been healthy.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Fun fact, Johnson the colored champion for his fight with Hart.

    Most historians consider Hart a lineal champion. There is time when a champion retires with his belt. When this happens, the top 1 contender usually fights the 2nd or 3rd man, with the winner being the new lineal champion.

    When Jeffries retired, Hart and Johnson were likely #1 and #2. Hart won the match.

    It also happened when Tunney was the champion. Schmeling did not beat Tunney to become the lineal champion.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    How did Jeffries get to say who should be fighting for the vacant title? How does he qualify to announce the winner as the champion?

    You do know he was paid to announce Hart as Champion, a position he recanted a couple of weeks later. Lineal means in effect,"the man that beat the man". Hart did not do that.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Hart got the decison ,which isn't exactly the same thing!
     
  13. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Who in your opinion ought to have been lineal and why?
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Jeffries was only the referee. He did NOT pick who was fighting for the title the people who put up money, sanctioned the fight, and promoted it did.

    Lineal title does not always mean the man who beat the man. If it did, Tunney tool the lineal title to his grave as he retired with it and the concept ends there.

    Marvin Hart beat the best black contender in Johnson early 1905, who as I pointed out held the colored heavyweight champion at the time of the match. Then he defeat the best white contender in Root a few months later.

    Leading up to these two fights, Hart bettered O'Brien, Ruhlin, and Choynski. Clearly he earned the right to fight for the title.

    Jeffries said he'd fight Hart after he defeated Johnson if the money was there, but it wasn't and people saw that as a mismatch, so he stayed retired.

    Therefore Hart by merit and logic became the next lineal champion.
     
  15. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Jack Root vs. George Gardner
    https://streamable.com/jbysa

    Very solid textbook boxing fight.
    Brutal KO