How many of Mike Tyson’s fights were fixed?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Saintpat, Jul 1, 2024.


  1. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well if there’s one constant in boxing, it’s that we can always take Don King’s word as golden truth.

    The fight was to go to purse bids because Lewis was the mandatory. No ifs ands or buts about it, Lewis had the right to not deal directly with King to fight Tyson for that belt and to be free and clear of any future association with King as a condition to getting an earned title shot — and that’s what purse bids are for: one fee for one fight, no options, no anything.

    Tyson dropped the belt rather than letting it go to purse bids. That is not in dispute. It’s documented.
     
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  2. Overhand94

    Overhand94 Active Member Full Member

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    It's also documented that the two of them were contractually tied to their respective network, which rendered the fight very difficult to make (that was the case even in 2002, when the fight made more sense financially).

    I want a source about what were the options Don King wanted to include ?

    It's clear that from the article that I quoted that is Lewis' camp who wanted to call the shots.
    Another quote from Lewis' manager :
    « Eliades confirms: "We have turned down Showtime's offer because we'd prefer to put on the fight ourselves. We can pay Tyson 45 million dollars. "It is not correct that we can't box for Showtime. If they up their bid to 15 million, they have got themselves a fight!" ».

    Source : https://www.thefreelibrary.com/TYSON'S+LAUGHING!;+It's+a+night+on+the+boos+for+Lennox.-a061162075
     
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  3. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Byrd was never at any point in time the consensus best outside of Lennox Lewis so how is that in any way a duck. Following Wlad's loss to Sanders Lewis fought once and retired.
     
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  4. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Don King always wanted options on future fights of anyone facing guys he controlled. Options means he had their promotional rights — they had to sign with him for a number of fights or he wouldn’t let his Tyson or Chavez or whoever fight them.

    You want quotes? I doubt Don held a press conference to announce how many fights he wanted Lewis to be obligated to fight for him by “allowing” Lewis to face Tyson in a MANDATORY.

    The whole point of purse bids for mandatories is that the challenger doesn’t have to sign away his future fights, his first-born male and his left tentacle to get a title fight.

    Tyson/King would not go to purse bids. The quote you provided there is basically Lewis’ camp saying ‘put it up for bids and we’ll win the bid, we can offer Tyson $45M.’

    He even went further, saying if Don King would offer $15M they’d do a deal (presumably without options, as he used the word ‘bid’).

    When these networks sign a fighter exclusively, they know how purse bids work. They know to keep the guy on their network they have to pay the freight. If Tyson’s side (King/Showtime) weren’t willing to put in the top bid, they’d lose out on that fight. Showtime doesn’t get to say ‘Mike Tyson fights for us, and we only pay $1 to any challenger’ … they have to get in the market and pay market rates.

    And Lewis’ side, in the quote you provided, said, in effect, ‘fine, we’ll fight on your network … this is the price, because we can meet a lower price in purse bids. If you meet this price, you win the bid.’
     
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  5. Overhand94

    Overhand94 Active Member Full Member

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    It's not about what King used to do, it's about what were his specifics demands concerning the Lewis/Tyson fight. I provided a source that indicates that it was him who was willing to make concessions. Of course, King is not the most reliable but the offers kept increasing (from 10 million to 18 million step-aside fee included) which in my view, tends to accredit King's version.

    I was exactly saying that Showtime didn't want to risk to lose the fight to HBO. And they were far from underpaying Tyson's opponents, as Seldon and Frank Bruno respectively get 5 million and 6 million, their best purse ever if I'm not wrong. They were not - especially Seldon - regarded as great champions but were paid (ironically) far more than Lewis challengers during his first reign.

    If we want to go by numbers, and even if we take into account the lowest proposition made to Lewis (10 million), he would have probably benefitted from 25% of the purse as Tyson was paid at most 30 million during this period. I think that it was fair considering Tyson far more superior market value, and equal or very near to a mandatory split (75/25 or 70/30).
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2025
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  6. Markus.C.65

    Markus.C.65 Member Full Member

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    TBF he'd hardly be the first hot prospect who was fed a line of stiffs who knew what their role was.
     
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Definitely not. By the time most of these trial horses get beat to shlt a dozen times they go in there with the “‘let’s get this over with attitude, then off to the bar. “
     
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  8. Markus.C.65

    Markus.C.65 Member Full Member

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    Agree
    Look at the Biggs fight. A couple of blatant elbows , 2 heavy shots landed when break had been called , one in round 5 that Biggs did well to stand up from and was given little or no time to recover by the referee, who responded by warning both fighters rather than Tyson.
    Strictly to the letter of the rules , he could have been DQd in that fight.
    Of course It was never going to happen.
    He never received a single point deduction or official warning.
     
  9. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I of course do not have quotes from Don King saying what options he wanted because afaik he’s never openly spoken about that part of offers or negotiations regarding any fight. You don’t say ‘I made them a fair offer for the fight, and he’d only be enslaved to me for six more fights, with me having the exclusive right to extend for six after that.’ Not how it works.

    Let us also consider that basically every fighter ever tied to Don King — INCLUDING Mike Tyson — says they were cheated by him and did not get what he promised nor what he put in ink on contracts. Many, including Tyson, took him to court over it. But Lennox is supposed to trust that Don will deliver on his promises? LOL. A purse bid mandates that the side that wins the bid has a certain number of days to put the money up, in full, in escrow, and the sides get paid out of that by a neutral party … King cannot **** them out of what he promised because he hands the money over to the governing body to disburse at the predetermined champion/challenger split. A purse bid guarantees Lewis gets paid what the contract says — history says signing a contract with King outside of a purse bid virtually guarantees that NOBODY gets paid what they were promised.

    Here, exactly, is how it works: If you don’t want options, you let it go to purse bids and you put in the highest bid you can and hope you win the right to promote the fight. The ONLY reason you try to cut a deal outside of a purse bid if you’re Don King is so you walk out with the winner either way and you control the heavyweight championship. He asserted that he had options on Buster Douglas after he beat Tyson and Buster went to court and won the right to make his mandatory vs. Holyfield … and then would have had to fight for King.

    Lewis and his team were not interested in step-aside. They wanted to fight for the title. So any offer of that is just King paying the guy to allow Tyson to duck him. That’s not a fair offer to fight for the title, it’s a fair offer to **** off and go away so Tyson wouldn’t have to fight him.

    Fair would be putting the fight up for bids and the top bid wins. What in the world could be more fair than that? The split is predetermined and each side makes the most possible money because the promoters are going to put in the biggest bids they can afford for the fight to not let the other side promote it.

    Tyson’s ‘superior market value’ would be a factor in what each side bid, so that is baked into the equation. The split is determined in a bid, so that the mandatory challenger doesn’t get a hot dog and a handshake to fight for the title and the champion takes the lion’s share — that’s not fair given that the mandatory challenger has by definition earned the title fight. He shouldn’t have to bend over for Don King nor have to sign with Don King because Tyson has two choices: fight him or give up the title.

    As we know, Tyson gave up the title. And Don King orchestrated it.

    You provided a source that indicated Lewis’ side was willing to make concessions: they named a price and said ‘we’ll fight on your network if you meet it.’ King didn’t meet it. Showtime and King should have put together a winning purse bid if they were dead-set on the fight being on the network … they don’t get to set the ceiling and say ‘too bad mandatory challenger, we don’t want to pay you fair market value (predetermined share of the winning bid) because we want it on our network and we want it at a lower price than the fight might fetch on the open market.’

    Well, they do get to do that if they decide to give up the title and duck Lewis … which is what they did.
     
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  10. Markus.C.65

    Markus.C.65 Member Full Member

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    And who could blame them , Lol
     
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  11. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    When you already know you have no chance and you’re only getting paid a few hundred bucks to show up it’s kinda futile.
     
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  12. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Its's about how you definie a duck and I don't think its's all black and white. But if you refuse a mandatory who generally is seen as one of the very top guys to sign with a lesser fighter, then I think it can reasonably be called a duck.

    There wasn't a very clear nr 1 in 1958 either, still Patterson is accused of a duck when taking on NBA nr 3 Harris, and I think that's a very reasonable accusation.

    Were motivations such as gate, money etc. driving in both instances? Probably. But they almost are to some degree, so doesn't exclude a duck for me.
     
  13. Walcott

    Walcott Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Tyson should have been disqualified in the second Ruddock bout. He was consistently low blowing in desperation, it was so close to being a Douglas type ending, Ruddock was getting close to stopping Mike.
     
  14. Overhand94

    Overhand94 Active Member Full Member

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    I wasn't expecting a King's quote. I just wanted to know what was Lewis' side version of the negociations, or reports in newspaper about that. Except the 45 million offer with no details, we have nothing. I had rather take King and newspapers reports than nothing.

    If Lewis was so reluctant to deal with King, why he dealt with him before and after the 1996 situation with Tyson ?

    You said that Lewis' team was not interested in the step-aside fee, but then why rejecting the 13,5 million offer just before ? This would have been his highest purse to date. Why Lewis didn't take the fight if he was so sure of beating Tyson ?

    Instead, he preferred to take a meager 2 million to fight a mentally sick McCall several months after. And ironically, McCall earned more money while ranked behind him. This made no sense. Even if you argue that King would have taken more than he should have of Lewis' purse (which remains to be proved in that specific situation), the remaining amount of the 13,5 million offer would have still been more than the 2 million he took for McCall.
     
  15. HolDat

    HolDat Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Never thought any of Tyson’s fights were fixed.