How Many Of The Fabulous Five Does Godfrey Beat

I think he would beat all but Johnson, not sure how many times though. I think Johnson beats him once or twice early in his career and doesnt rematch.

 

Wills had 11 offers to fight Godfrey but did not. This is one the fans lost out on, and would really help us place Godfrey's ability in the ring.

I think Godfrey has some skills on flim, but he was not a top boxer by any means. He was pretty much a big guy with fair skills, and some power.

Godfrey career lacks big wins. Godfrey was a coward in the ring and low often. In news read Godfrey tended to lose stamina as the rounds went on because he was either not in shape or lacked natural stamina to begin with. It is likley that Godfrey was in some fixed fights, but hard to say for sure which ones. Somehow Godfrey made the hall of fame 1-2 years ago. I thought it was a bad decison by the pannel of voters.

Langford as an older fighter ko'd Godfrey 2x early. Outside of a punchers chance, I don't think Godfrey would out work or out point the five you mentioned.

I think Godfrey's best chance for an upset would be vs Johnson, simply because Johnson in my opninion had the weakest chin of the five, and was not always in shape for a big match.

 

Yes, but don't forget Gene Tunney avoided Godfrey like the plague. Wanted no part of godfrey and said so publicly, Godfrey even challenged to fight Gene for free. Tunney drew the color line, and godfreys size and power had something to do with it. That is another fight we missed out on.

So your basing opinion based upon a 25lb overweight out of shape "Cuffs" godfrey of the carnera fight? That was not a prime Godfrey in there. Godfrey at his best has been said to move like a cat around the ring, and trained by Jack Blackburn he had "devastating" two fisted power with some frightening knockouts according to the newspapers. Godfrey had more than just some power, blackburn trained him to be a machine like he later did joe louis.

Thats because no one would fight him, Tunney Wills Dempsey all ducked him. Schmeling certainly didnt want to give him a title shot. I think knockout Victory over Larry Gains and decision win over Tiger Jack Fox is still pretty impressive.

He finally got the respect he deserves

Godfrey was in his PRO debut. Talk about being a novice. Also Godfrey DID knockout Sam Langford in Burton IA in 3 rounds.


“George finally stopped the veteran in three rounds in Burton, IA, but none of their matches really showed the two in fair comparison, for Langford was far past his prime, while Godfrey was still climbing.- Aug 17 1921 Covington Riverside Athletic Club

You horribly underate jack johnson. face it, johnson was head and shoulders talent wise above jeffries, fitzimmons, langford, jeanette, mcvea. His record against them??? 9-1!!!!












Larry Gains once said "Godfrey was the best of them all. I've sparred with Dempsey and fought just about every good heavyweight out there and I will tell you, George Godfrey was the best. I was afraid of only two men in my life, My Father and George Godfrey."





TUNNEY SPURNS GODFREY MATCH

"plans for a battle between geney tunney, former american lightheavyweight champion, and george godfrey, negro heavyweight, as the feature attraction on the annuel christmas boxing carnival in madison square garden on dec 18, today were abandoned. it was announced by the officials of the fund. billy gibson manager of gene tunney declinded the prooffered match. according the the fund officials, gibson asserted harry wills is the only negro heavyweight tunney will box." - los angeles times nov. 4 1925





EASTERN SNAPSHOTS by W. Rollo Wilson



Nov.12, 1925-The Baron of Leiperville is home again with wonderous tales of the mighty deeds of the "Shadow" along the gilded slope. The "Shadow" is just another way of denoting Gorger George Godfrey, Jimmy's (Dougherty) outsize white elephant. For white elephant George seems now to be. Nobody wants to fight him for love or money. Mr. Wills unostentatiously draws the color line. Mr. Tunney is more blatant in his announcement to the same effect. "I'll fight Harry Wills," broadcasts James Joseph, "but I draw the color line on George Godfrey."



Two things may be on the mind of the Apollo of Greenwich Village, Perhaps he thinks that one "shot" with Wills would give him enough of the filthy lucre for his future earthly needs. Win or lose he would be "in." Fighting Ole Black Lightning [Godfrey] would be a case of all to lose and nothing to gain, he probably thinks. At this time Billy Gibson and Tunney are saying that the Big Three of Boxing are Dempsey, Wills, and the modest Gene. Godfrey would fain make it a foursome, but you can be jolly well sure that the triumvira will continue to say him nay.



One of the first acts of [Dougherty] on his arrival was to release another challenge in the general direction of the above-mentioned Big Three. His latest offer is this:

All any promoter has to do is get Harry, Gene or Jack to sign the papers and pay them whatever they want. Godfrey will come in without asking for a dollar. The aftermath will provide the Dougherty clan with all they will want, because they feel that George can take any of the three.



As is well known Dougherty and Dempsey are the best of friends. Last summer a year ago (1924) Dempsey visited the baronial halls (Leiperville). While here the subject of a bout with George was broached. Jack declared that if he fought at all he would fight Wills, but not Godfrey. Jimmy pressed him for the reason and he said : "Godfrey is a big strong fellow and is young, Wills is getting older and I think he will be the easier man of the two. That is the reason I prefer to fight him, if I fight." - ROLLO WILSON was often referred to as "the dean of the Black Press.




"Tunney wanted nothing to do with Godfrey--plain and simple--too tough a fight. Godfrey is vastly under-rated. His record and career are somewhat mired in mystery. So many DQ's, knockouts and damn mystifying losses. I have no doubt, for instance, that he had the cuffs on against Sharkey. The high number of DQ's has more to do with him fighting to order than it does with him being sloppy. Tunney could outbox most heavies and I don't doubt that he could outbox George Godfrey for 5 or six or even ten rounds. However, George was fast for his size, was adept at chasing men down and could hit like a team of mules. If this were a fifteen round fight, I see Godfrey having a hell of chance catching up to Gene. Remember that Tunney's heavyweight resume is not that long or overly impressive. His two best wins were against Dempsey--over 10 rounds--and it is probable that Jack was past it then. Godfrey handled Larry Gaines fairly easily and Gaines was a boxer in both the mold and style of Tunney. Gaines stated that he feared only two men in his life, his father and George Godfrey. George was a beast--big, athletic, huge puncher and surprisingly good speed and movement for a man his size. I think in his prime, 1925-1931, he was about as good as it got. Nobody really wanted to fight George, and for good reason. Tunney avoided him like the plague. In his prime, with no handcuffs, and this is strictly my opinion, I think he could have beaten, Tunney, Sharkey, Carnera and maybe even Dempsey(certainly a post 1926 Dempsey)."- Boxing historian Kevin Smith Author of Sundowners





"Not only did Tunney duck Godfrey but so did Dempsey and Wills. From late 1923 Baron (James) Dougherty issued challenges almost daily for Wills to take on Godfrey, who was Philadelphia's greatest drawing card. Promoters Herman Taylor and Bobby Gunnis figured such a match in Phila would do between $250 K to $500 K. and the winner would be the "logical challenger" for Dempsey. Dougherty offered all kinds of perks to Wills including that Godfrey would take the match for $ 1. I think Godfrey was the most handcuffed fighter of all time. When we interviewed Dougherty's son Howard, who was also a promoter and drove Godfrey across country for his campaign in California, He talked of all the concessions they had to make in order for Godfrey to meet high rated fighters including carrying opponents, fouling out, etc. His loss to Risko was a case in point as some fair eyewitness scribes have noted that Godfrey easily handled Risko for the first eight rounds at Ebbetts Field then Risko made a courageous stand in the last two rounds and they awarded him the decision. His first two matches with Renault were "smellers" and his "foul-outs" were "ordered." Today People don't realize that one leading black challenger (Wills) was tolerated because of his "good name" with the New York commission but two top black challengers were frowned on. Godfrey and his management (Dougherty) tried to alleviate the situation by attempting to lure Wills into the ring by any means, but of course Wills and Paddy Mullins were not about to risk their position that they earned by taking on young, and very dangerous opponent like Godfrey.I still believe Godfrey was the most "handcuffed" boxer of all time. Being the "most handcuffed boxer of all time" (my opinion) doesn't mean that he was the best of his period, just the "most feared" with the cuffs off. By the way check out photos of Godfrey pre 1926 before his frustrations caused him to gain weight. His body was ripped with muscle and he was always in top condition."- Chuck Hasson Boxing Historian

 

I like Jack Johnson by unanimous decision over Godfrey. johnson had too much skills/strength and godfreys iron fists will not penetrate johnson defense. Johnson at a chizzled 6'2 205lb would not be giving up much size difference either. Godfrey in his prime would pose alot of problems for Harry, I like Wills but thats a toss up, not enough film to judge. I think Godfrey knocks out Sam Mcvea in a wild slugfest and wins a close one over Joe Jeanette. Godfrey vs Langford would be a wild slugfest both at there best, I can see each man scoring a knockout over the other. Godfreys size reach and power would pose many problems for Sam, but Sam will find a way to get him at least once.

 

Tunney was scared to death of a big, "negro heavyweight", and drew the color line like a madman as soon as he heard he should fight him. After a deep sigh of relieve that he could use the color ducking line, he was happy to defend the title against a fat, 5'9 Tom Heeney. And they lived happy and long ever after. :good

 

I mean, I don't know if your being sarcastic or not Chris, but what you said is pretty much true.

 

I was serious. Ducking opponents aka drawing the "color line" is a big black mark on one's resume.

 

I will be honest with you ...I really did not know that about Tunney but I will have to hold it against him, I always thought gene was one of the best moving heavys after Ali but I will mark him and every other heavy who avoided the best regardless of money...thing is why did Johnson do the same thing if he knew how hard it was to break in

 

does anyone have details of the Sharkey and Carnera fights he was 28 years old for Sharkey ( got to give Jack S credit)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzeY4udtFQg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_4dku3Sd0A

 

Primo looked like he was doing well until the low blow but I could not really see it clear

 

So saying that he would fight Wills over Godfrey meant that he was a coward?

Tunney won the Title in 1926. AT this time Wills was the No 1 contender and had been regarded here for some time. He was a name fighter. Unfortunately though, he lost to Sharkey on fouls. later the next year he was KOd by Uczuden and he then became inactive and virtually retired, so there was certainly no colour line drawn against wills.

Godfrey, is who i presume you are talking about. Godfrey was kod regularly until about 1923. The KOs to Sam Langford in particular would give the image that he wasnt up to world class standard. In 1924 he had 2 foul losses and a points loss. 1925 was a good year with no losses but no big names on the resume either. In 1926 Godfrey had a loss on fouls to Chuck Wiggan which i know nothing about, but most importantly, in the year that Tunney won the title, Godfrey fought and lost to Sharkey. This was the first time in ages he had stepped up the competition and again, he was found wanting, in that he lost. What is Tunney to do. He defended against the man who defeated Sharkey!, who was the former world champion, and who had just created the largest Gate ever. I think i would have defended against Dempsey too. This just leaves his last and final defence, as it would seem that Tunney had virtually proved himself the best in the world, had no desire to continue due to already earning his fortune. Who should he choose? Admittedly Godfrey did wrack up a good win streak at this time, but none of the opponents were considered top 5 in the world until after Tunney retires. If Lance Whitaker or someone of that ilk, who has lost every time he fights a top 5 fighter and has been regularly knocked out goes on a 2 year win streak, you could hardly say that Vlad ducked him for not defending against him.

Maybe you met Jack Johnson, because if Tunney was ducking big black negros, there is one he actually ducked. When Tunney won the title from Dempsey in 1926, Jack was still undefeated and a fight with him would have been the biggest box office match available. Historically, this fight should have been made. Realistically, Tunney should have been the one that started the decline of Jack Johnson (Dempsey could have done so also, and there are rumours that he actually did). If Tunney was just about taking easy fights for money as some suggest and running scared, this fight would have been made. I am not 100% that old Jack wouldnt have trained hard and won the fight to be honest, but Jack did have a case for being ducked, certainly every bit as good as any other fighter of the time.

This leaves Paulino Uzcuden. Paulino had been fighting in Europe in 1926 and he had his first fight in the USA in 1927, but in theory he did come into calculations for the 1928 defence given to Heeney. Paulino actually Kod wills and then beat Heeney, in 1927, so he should have been in the picture. Unfortunately in September 1927 he only drew with Heeney. This was followed in November 1927 with a loss to Johnny Risko, who had already lost to Heeney. With a June fight in the mix, you would expect the signing somewhere in february. In February, Paulino actually lost to George Godfrey. Unfortunately for him, this is not the type of form that earns world title shots. He cannot be said to be ducked.

For completeness, we should probably consider Heeneys record. Heeney was nothing standout prior to 27, but he had never been knocked out, unlike most of the leading contenders, which was a feather to his bow. He had lost to Paulino. But, in the rematch,it finished in a draw. This was in sept 27. In october 27, he fought and defeated Johnny Risko (who one month later fought and defeated Paulino Uzcuden). After beating Risko, he drew with Sharkey and beat Delaney. Delaney is an interesting character. His record shows at this time, that in 1927 after losing on points to Paulino, he followed this up with a draw with him and some other wins. In october 1927 he actually beat Johnny Risko, which clearly put him in the picture. There was a January draw with Sharkey, that again kept him in the frame, but his loss to Heenan is what appears to have cost him and earned Heenan the shot at Tunney. He seemed to have as good a claim or better than anyone else to the no 1 spot.

All in all, there was no standout challengers in 1928, which is the only time Tunney can be said to have drawn the colour line. He had to pick someone to fight and Heenan had as good a claim as any when that decision was made, as is shown and proved by looking at the dates at this time. What would have been really interesting would have been if Johnson had beaten Bob Lawson and Ed Wright.

 

He declined a fight that offered no gain for him except in the minds of internet posters 90 years later. He had no problem fighting Wills but it never occurred. He had no problems fighting Greb, who was one of the very greatest fighters ever to enter the ring or a murderous puncher in Dempsey. I don't think fear was an issue here, moreso it was the opportunity to make real money, the same thing that all fighters from all eras hold as a primary interest.

In regards to Godfrey, I think he does well against McVea but loses to the rest. He is another attempt to create more out of a fighter from the distant past than can be truly argued with certainty. It makes the initiator of such a claim look clever and worldly but in objective light is backed by a paucity of fact. I'm sorry history screwed Godfrey but I am not going to be so arrogant as to think that my overrating him many decades hence will make up for the injury.