Ruby Robert is certainly right up there - but then there are also guys like Sam Langford well and truly embedded in the P4P discussion - with a good argument that Sam was more broadly applied and successful at all levels -
Yeah, it would be difficult to work out how Fitzsimmons was better than Langford based on that. If one were to take Fitzsimmons' side in this, I imagine they could pursue the meaning of the term pound-for-pound as literally as possible--as in, how effective someone is relative to their size. In that regard, one might conclude that Fitzsimmons was not only better than Langford, but superior to all others. For instance, a supporter might ask if Langford, Robinson, Greb, or Armstrong ever performed as well as Fitzsimmons did when he faced a near 50-pound and 12-year age deficit against an all-time great like Jeffries. If the answer is that they did not, that may be seen as an indicator that his peak was higher than everyone else's, thus making him p4p king.
Ruby Robert Fitzsimmons had wins over Heavyweights, Peter Maher (World Heavyweight Title Fight), Tom Sharkey, James J. Corbett (World Lineal Heavyweight Championship), Gus Ruhlin, and Bill Lang (Australian Heavyweight Championship), while weighing between 156 and 167 pounds. That's hard to argue against.
I actually have him at #4. Because I don't like the fact that people will look at him and his hair and everything and be like nah that's just some geezer from old timey time and he isn't great like other great boxers. I'm like, boom, tadow, take that, #4 though. Yeah.
Good points. I like Fitz and he was a wonder for sure but then we have the colour line - a restrictive bubble for white fighters and problematic when assessing truly broad and comparably superior achievements - even if the best Langford aligned with Jeffries’ prime time line we know Big Jeff would never have fought him. It’s always submitted that Langford advertised to fight any man BUT Jeffries. A superfluous sentiment. Pure PR (likely concocted by his manager Woodman), gaining mileage from a preclusion already put in place by Jeffries. Sam beat a number of opp. considerably larger than himself also. Additionally, and this cuts for all fighters of the day, a number of the vanquished opposition who were deemed HW in name actually fell into the mod. super middle, LH and Cruiser Weight divisions themselves. Fitz’ weights for some fights might’ve also been a tad understated - a number of opp. believing he weighed a bit more than he claimed (many times there was no official weigh in - just weights submitted in good faith). We could also flip it and wonder how long and how successful Fitz might’ve been if he faced the same scheduling and breadth of opposition as Langford. Upon winning the title Fitz took 2 years off and his activity dropped again some time after losing the HW title, prior to his rematch with Jeff. Another P4P consideration is 168 lbs or so Joe Choynski (and he actually looked no more than Super MW). - who drew with a greener Jeffries. Of course we know Choy also KO’d a green Johnson - but again, this was not the 208 lb heavily muscled Jonson of 1910 - weights given in and around that time suggest Johnson could’ve been as low as 168 lbs to mid 170 lbs himself - and photos from the time indicate an underweight and underfed Lil Arthur. In a more mod. frame, at least as far as power goes, there’s Julian Jackson also. He really had OMG power - overkill force, the surplus of which I imagine he could’ve taken with him several divisions higher - and with considerately added bulk, he might’ve gained some extra newtons anyway. If he’d fought Leonard at 154 I’d favour Ray but it would be a perilous fight for Ray nonetheless - in the blink of an eye Jackson could be incredibly fast and accurate himself - a few seconds work being sufficient to end a fight, even against the tide - as we’ve all seen.
Salient points. Too many fall prey to the Samson Syndrome. Hair or lack thereof does not maketh the fighter. If it did, then Fabio could’ve been an ATG in boxing - but we all saw him easily taken down on the roller coaster by a mere 10 lb goose. I was always impressed with what Bob was able to do with the little hair that he did have - must’ve had a great stylist. And he had the same amount of so little hair for so long. Testosterone to spare. Pompadour Gentleman Jim clearly had more oestrogen coursing through him. There is a very old photo of a young, more hirsute, moustachioed Fitz - but he looks far too soft - give me the hardened, freckled, 99% totally bald Ruby Robert always. So much less hair lent to Bob’s P4P status also. Corbett’s own hair must’ve weight at least 4 lbs - no such negation for Fitz.
Fitz won the title and pretty much made money by taking it on the road. Very few champs were "Busy" as Sullivan, Corbett, Fitz, Willard, Dempsey, and as late as Braddock took long breaks as champs. Can you image today if Tyson Fury took a 3 or 4 year break?? Pretty common back than.
Yes, with the title in hand and celebrity as HW Champ, many obviously found it less physically demanding and just as lucrative or even more so to take the theatrical tour route. But again, these were notably white fighters who also drew the colour line - excepting Burns who was so much busier and did in fact face and lose to Johnson. So for the less busy (Jeffries was a bit of an improvement on his predecessors), it still puts a hole in their resumes atop their not facing top shelf black opposition.
